When is street art art, and when is it vandalism?
Posted at 5:00 AM on November 18, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(40 Comments)
Filed under: Culture
A story on MPR News today describes a young artist who stopped doing graffiti after repeated run-ins with the law. Now he uses yarn to create a different kind of street art that is less likely to be regarded as vandalism. Today's Question: When is street art art, and when is it vandalism?
Comments (40)
Why MPR has all allowed the same two or three trolls to dominate this platform is beyond me. The level of discourse here appears to be more like the Strib comments section than something I would expect from MPR.
As an aside. I wonder if any of these trolls actually contribute to MPR?
Oh, the irony! Conservatives have been doing a lot more of that sort of Orwellian redefinition of terms, and more successfully, than liberals in recent decades, kimMN. Calling plutocrats "job creators," for instance. Using "elite" to conjure up images of out-of-touch academicians rather than out-of-touch uber-wealthy folks who erupt in rage when their solid gold golf tees come with the wrong monogram. Labeling as "socialism" any moderate attempt to keep economic predators from hoarding wealth at the expense of the poor. Crying "marxism" in response to any effort to keep unlucky folks from falling through the cracks into utter destitution. It's disingenuous to complain about liberals calling themselves "progressives," when it's folks like you who made "liberal" into a curse word, instead of a descriptive adjective.
Street art is just a made up term by the media to excuse artistic vandals that do not respect other's property..plain and simple. Otherwise these so called street artists would have a normal showing at a gallery or have their work posted in the papers.
"Street artist" as a noun is no different than calling a Liberal as a Progressive..Progressive sounds better to some after Liberals were connected to too many far left radicals.
The biggest radical Progressive, former Obama czar, founder of STORM and a conspiracy 9-11 Truther, Van Jones stated, " it is time to present a non radical image so we can work from within."
This creative use of terms is the same as when the schools used to call students with IQ functioning below 70 as Educable Mentally Retarded, they later switched to using the term, Developmental Cognitive Delay. Parents were more apt to accept that term to get special education services than the older term yet, the non politically correct service group, ARC still uses the term of mentally retarded; i.e., Association of Retarded Citizens.
Street artists are still vandals no matter how well they draw or paint images. Same as Planned Parenthood_ it is still "Planned singlehood through abortion" no matter what they call themselves, they can't hide behind a cute name anymore than street artists can deny being vandals...324,000 abortions per year is still aborting nearly a thousand babies every day across America.
In the words of the esteemed VP Joe Biden, best known for his use of the F word on stage and earlier when demeaning Palin,
stated " lipstick on a pig is still a pig."
Imagine the media response if a conservative had used that phrase toward Pelosi or Michelle Obama????
Heck, never mind the MBA, what institution would grant a master's degree of any kind to a student who is obviously clueless when it comes to critical thinking and reasoning?
From what institution, kimMN, can one earn an MBA without learning what marxism actually is and the real reasons it's a faulty ideology (as opposed to the ridiculous caricature of it you keep spouting)? Whatever diploma mill you got your degree from should have its accreditation revoked!
Maybe we all missed the boat as they say in Texas when asking the difference.
Street art that is posted with the owner's permission is like the Beck 8-28 Restoring Honor in DC or the Tea Party rallys of hundreds of thousands--clean and orderly and not one arrest, not one Rape Free zone had to be roped off and no hypodermic crack used needles or human feces and vomit on the ground for city workers to pick up. Those rallys had support from non violent leaders and numerous Congressmen.
In contrast, as the media ignored stories of the Occupiers..they are really more akin to the vandals that pretend to be street artists , all the while they defy private property, commit crimes and are supported by some of the worst anti-american groups..again, take a look at the long list of unsavory OWS supporters...ouch.
@suestueben Thank you Suzie for that rather shining example of how some hard core liberals have no tolerance for others opinions unless it matches theirs. It appears that each time a post here does not agree in accordance with established liberal Progressive views, those writers are then name called and demeaned.
In a family business that employs 24. I would hire 4 more if I knew how Obama Insurance Care would cost the business in the future and how the EPA will force us to spend another $22,000 a year on just filing all the new regulations of Obama's pleasure. I provide well for my kids an I multi task and yes, I paid my student loans for a MBA years a go.
If suesteuben doesn't like what she reads because i apparently rocks her boat to know Obama and his cronies have looted our country using the second stimulus act..well, then vote him out. ;) If not in 2012, then ask your self, are we to be like Europe or return to being America?
Americans have polled and say they CANNOT AFFORD FOUR MORE YEARS of failed policies. Yes, Obama started with a bad situation and after three years_ he has made it worse..at least according to the CBO and every other indicator of the economy.
"A Banksy street drawing,"
Banksy? blech.
"and vile words certainly has many more negative externalities than positive, making it vandalism. "
I don't know about that, I find it exhillerating when the victim has been labeled accordingly. For example, if a neighbor is a BUTT and an artist(s) tag's the side of their garage with an enormous booty or a extinguished cigarette, (or distinguished depending on the demographics)I would find that type of tag as useful as identifying a potential moron. ;)'
Whether it's art or scribbling or vandalism, the issue is the ownership of the property. I love to look at the graffitti when I'm stopped by a train, but I know that even the most beautiful 'art' I see, can be overpainted by the railroad companies. Conversely, there is a man on our block who thinks the trash he paints and places all over his yard is 'art,' but the rest of us wish he would remove the junk. We're resigned to waiting till he dies--because it's his property.
@KimMN--I just found out you have kids, OMG I feel so sorry for them. What are you doing spending so much time on this column writing your lengthy, ignorant, unending opeds? --shouldn't you be working to provide for them, or working at home (is your house disease-free?), or cheering them at their games or practices? Please give up this anger-based activity and turn some loving time toward your children; we deserve and they deserve it.
This is a private propery issue, if the owner wants the 'art' it is art, if they do not it is vandalism.
Wow, kimMN, not only have you shown in your numerous posts today that you don't know what your talking about, but in your 12:27pm post you demonstrate that you have no sense of humor, either.
I was amused by Keith Haring, so I'll call that art. Not so much gang tags.
Getting back to the question at hand…
I believe it is a matter of weighing social and private externalities. When the social and private costs outweigh the benefits then the “art” can be viewed as vandalism, but if the benefit of the visual outweighs the costs I believe it can then be viewed as art.
A few examples: A train car plastered with abhorrent slogans and vile words certainly has many more negative externalities than positive, making it vandalism.
Private property that is covered with unasked for and sloppy graffiti has many more negative externalities than positive, making it vandalism.
On the other hand though…
A Banksy street drawing, although irreverent and unasked for, is witty, appropriate, a commentary on our society, and almost always exceedingly well done. In cities, where graffiti such as that has popped up, it is almost always decided to keep such artwork. The costs are outweighed by the benefits and the “vandalism” becomes classified by art.
Yes, I understand that although there is fair amount of ambiguity- scratch that- A LOT of ambiguity in deciding whether the good side outweighs the bad side, most times when we see “pickup artwork” out in public I believe we’re very good judges of whether or not it’s art. A crude piece of vandalism that has been slapped onto a wall regardless of the owner’s intentions is not art, but a well done piece of art that has meaning and thought behind it that doesn’t impede upon the autonomy, pursuit of happiness, etc. etc. of others can truly be classified as art.
"Yesterday while stopped at a train crossing, my children had to see the filth and vulgar graffiti spayed all over private owner railroad cars passing by."
I feel bad for these kids.
"( No, corporations are NOT individuals, so beautify that to your heart's content, street artists.)"
BAZINGA!
"How would you feel if they did this street art on your new car?"
Why don't yo let me know where your car is parked and you can give us a full report after the fact? ; )'
A word limit would be simpler and cheaper to enforce. Please drive the trolls away.
can we please get some sort of moderation on these posts?
MPR is doing itself a disservice by not moderating them.
I prefer well-done graffiti done by violent homicidal drug running gang members who voted for Obama over layers of lost cat posters and garage sale flyers.
@Jim Spairo comment that corporations are not people so they have no right to be free from vandalism..wow! That sounds like the OWS anarchists! I have stock though my retirement and pension funds with such corporations as McDonalds and Ford. So their property I invest in can be vandalized by lawless artists? And my invested money loses value when corporations have to spend to clean up other's vandalism?
No wonder with that type of thinking, NOT ONE Democrat has spoke up about the OWS violence let alone speaking out against the former Obama czar radical, Van Jones, for his recent speeches calling for more civil disobedience at OWS. Obama appointed Van Jones the STORM radical communist supporter..so what does that _say about who is our leader? Imagine the media's response if Bush had appointed David Duke from KKK as one of his czars???? yet, when Obama does this appointing radicals as Van Jones and Anita Dunn, the media looks the other way. If it wasn't for Fox News there would be no coverage at all of what he radicals in charge are doing. Before anyone crys foul, list for us readers allllll the FOX News coverages that were patently false and then list the facts by reference to support such claims. Impossible and that_ is exactly why open minded readers also watch Fox News along with or without CNN.
" What is art?" is a question for the ages.
More easily answerable is "what is vandalism?".
That's the unwelcome alteration of an individual's or public property.
( No, corporations are NOT individuals, so beautify that to your heart's content, street artists.)
Yesterday while stopped at a train crossing, my children had to see the filth and vulgar graffiti spayed all over private owner railroad cars passing by. Is that gang graffiti no different than street art where we are exposed to such vile crap?
@stevecynic comment where he says, " It depends on who's ticked off by it."
Really? Well then, since Steve speaks as a Progressive, I guess the rest of us can feel free to draw nice pictures of Obama alllll over his car and home or apartment since that wouldn't tick him off enough to call it vandalism? ;) Since he has spoke of support to OWS in MN, can we draw pictures of protesters all over his yard or fence? That shouldn't tick him off.
No mater which way it is done, street art is nothing more than a Progressive's label for another form of vandalism, excused as long as it is representing the absence of family values or representing Far left ideals.
Video: http://www.thedailycandidate.com/video/2011/nov/malkin_wh_ows.html
Lets have all street artists given amnesty for any vandalism, even if it is to home owners garage walls and private company buildings and oops, art on public fences all because it is endorsed by he leftists ideology of freedom of speech at the expense of other's rights? OWS has ruined property, spray painted walls and sidewalks all in the name of their protest. How would you feel if they did this street art on your new car?
MPR readers can read this and decide for yourself what the real climate is since 2008.
Michelle Malkin took on the White House last night over this relationship: paste this to read. http://www.thedailycandidate.com/video/2011/nov/malkin_wh_ows.html
Just to add an interesting wrinkle to the art debate: one of the pieces in the HOTTEA show is a prototype for a piece he wants to do in New York. It's an homage to a graffiti writer of decades past who worked in the era when NYC subway cars were festooned with taggers' work.
HOTTEA will recreate one of the guy's classic designs by weaving it onto a fence about a block from a spot where the subway is above ground. By standing in the right spot people will be able to see the trains passing by briefly "redecorated." In the "Flying Solo" show it's done on a much smaller scale, with a static picture of a train in the back ground.
It looks very cool, and the trains remain pristine.
@stevecynical,
Marxist leaders use the redistribution of wealth to further their power but under the guise of doing well for all people. Obama is not a capitalist, he speaks all the time of denigrating business owners. What his policies have done is to have the White House admin. control business by favoritism, insider trading schemes and over regulating which business will survive to benefit the admin and his cohorts. Look at almost every radical appointee he has made since taking office. Each of these come from the radical left in some form or fashion. Good lord he appoints a lawyer instead of someone with law enforcement background to be our top enforcer, Eric Holder the biased Attorney General that is responsible for the death of Brian Terrry , Customs and Border Patrol.
Holder also dropped the case on Black Panthers for voter intimidation. I am surprised Holder hasn't given amnesty to the " poor misguided street artists" that ruin others private property all excused because they are a minority expressing their freedom of speech.
Read "Injustice Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department” by J. Christian Adams. In this book you will see the reasons and who are behind the launching of so-called civil rights "investigations." Adams was the DOJ attorney handling the New Black Panthers voter intimidation case that obama/holder dropped so precipitously after which Adams RESIGNED.
HOPE and CHANGE...but Obama never once said clearly what CHANGE he would do..all he has done is to further the divide between Americans_ Obama has not brought people closer together but just the opposite with his Marxist based and endorsed Class Warfare tactics.
It is as Steve said hard to be both in his eyes because_ we never got to know who exactly Obama is..a man who orders his life's history in passport records to be immune from discovery, a man who refuses to do as other candidates doid, Obama hides his college records from Harvard and there are no records from Occidental either and_ he hides his medical records as well. TRANSPARENCY as he said his administration would be, is the biggest joke.
In the words of Bill Clinton in 2008, " Obama?..seriously, now there's a fairy tale."
In the words from an Iowa speech of Hillary Clinton, " Why does Obama not want us to see his birth certificate? How can he have been adopted by Sotero in Indonesia as a 6 year old losing his American citizenship and meet the qualifications for running as President?" People today are now wishing Hillary was in office since Obama's three years in office record is abysmal
Maybe Holder will spend more of his time on street artists being harassed by police or suing states for enforcing illegal immigration or refusing to disclose records to Congress of insider trading with campaign financiers from at least 7 Green industry companies?
Is Obama a marxist, or is he a crony capitalist? Make up your mind, kimMN. The two are mutually exclusive, so he can't be both. But then, we've come to see that logic is irrelevant in your scheme of things.
The day's question too often seems to coincide with the real news affecting everyone. These are stories that are not being addressed by so many media. What is more important to most? street vandal artists or legal insider trading by our Congress? Or what about between vandals vs. being aware that Obama appoints a scientist, such as David Chu of the Energy Dept. to manage and approve 32 billion tax dollars? He is a brilliant scientist, but he has never run a business or managed a profit corporation. 32 billion in guaranteed stimulus loans and then he illegally subordinates these loans so all of us lose this amount of money? How many of our Congressmen from MN have profited from the Green industry loans using insider trading to short these stocks and make 6 figure amounts in one day? Is Franken, Klobuchaur and Kline clean on this insider trading? How did former democrat Speaker of the House and Frank Dodd make in excess of $2,000,000.00 in the past year while the economy stagnated?
MPR should ask this Question of the Day:
" Is insider stock trading, while illegal for us but legal for Congressmen to do, any worse than street artist vandals and does it affect your voting stance and view of those who represent us in DC?"
The latest book-an investigative study of Congress, "THROW THEM ALL OUT IN " will make us all wonder why we elect these people.
Politicians are truly the elite 1 % and Obama has proven he can do his Marxist themes of "redistribute wealth " but only to the billionairs. So, in spite of his campaign speeches that he would CHANGE how Washington works, Obama has upped the game of " doing business as usual in Washington."
I like what david said and I tend to agree.
I will admit I do have appreciation for some of the excellent tagging I have seen not on either side of the tracks, but ON the tracks.
It sure is annoying when I write something and have it deliberately misconstrued, GaryF. I thought I was explicit enough that I wasn't intending my comment to be an excuse for the bad behavior, but that didn't stop you from taking it that way. It goes to show the truth of the saying: Nothing can be stated so carefully that some jerk can't twist its meaning and use it against you. Nuance is lost on ideologues, who don't think for themselves.
As many of you have written - if you don't have the owners permission, it's vandalism! And there is no excuse for it. I don't care if you want to say, " it's not his/her fault or they have the right to do this because __________ (fill in the blank). Wrong is wrong! Don't care how poor or rich or what side of the tracks you come from. But our society now is all about feeling good and "it's not your fault". There is a generation now that were raised being taught that "it's not their fault" - whether they are spray painting private property or leading corporate greed. Their families, and/or ministers and/or schools and society doesn't want them to feel bad about or take responsibiltiy for what they do.
When I wake up one morning to find someone spray painted something on the side of my garage that'll cost me a few hundred dollars and a few hours time to clean up, it is pretty annoying and in no way, shape, or form art. It's illegal too, but I'm helpless to do anything about it.
When I wake up another morning, and find someone bought my mortgage, bundled it with a bunch or other mortgage someone else sold, knowing full well the majority of them would never get paid back, and it has cost me $88,000 and will take over 10 years to get caught up on, it is business as usual in america. This should be illegal, but I'm still helpless to do anything about it.
Guess people's problems are relative to where they are looking at them from.
"However, when people grow up in a world where they feel disrespected because of which side of the tracks they grow up on, it's hard for them to learn to respect others."
AND IT'S STILL WRONG.
"Why do "artists" think they can vandalize public and private property?"
When the "artists" feel that property owners are vandalizing their lives?
I actually agree with you, GaryF (will wonders never cease?) that "art" done on private property without the owners permission is vandalism and should be punished appropriately. However, when people grow up in a world where they feel disrespected because of which side of the tracks they grow up on, it's hard for them to learn to respect others.
I'm with Hugo on this one.
"Vandalism" is a legal term, and "art" is not, so the two are not mutually exclusive. I can appreciate the artistic merit of something, while also condemning its creation as an act of vandalism.
When it's not your property or when you don't have permission from the property owner.
Why do "artists" think they can vandalize public and private property?
When the owner of the property where the street art is drawn thinks it can stay then it is art. But when they have to pay to have it removed it is vandalism.
It is always vandalism if it is done without the permission of the property owner, whether private or public.
It depends on who's ticked off by it.
I'll know it when i see it. ;^ )
| November 2011 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S | M | T | W | T | F | S |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | ||
| 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |
| 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |
| 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 |
| 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | |||
Master Archive
Recent Entries
- Have changes to the airline passenger experience affected your willingness to fly?
- Should marijuana be available for medical use in Minnesota?
- Do the struggles of Minnesota's business icons signal trouble for the state's economy?
- Do you know whether insurance would cover your losses in a major storm?
- What kind of recycling program would you be likely to use the most?
- Would you support paying people for organ or tissue donations?
- Have personal relationships in the workplace ever presented a problem for you?
- Do you think Facebook is a passing fad?
- Will you be less likely to visit the Minnesota Zoo without its dolphins?
- Should authorities in the Twin Cities change the way they warn people about tornadoes?
Public Insight Network
The Public Insight Network draws upon your experiences to help shape our coverage.More
Categories
Services
In The Spotlight
-
Sound Learning
Looking for ways to ensure your students are doing quality research from credible sources? Sound Learning is a launching point to Minnesota Public Radio's content on the Web. -
The Current Music Blog
Your daily note for good music, news and pop culture. With attempted jokes.
- Become a Member
- Member Connect Accounts
- Leadership Circle
- Sustaining Members
- Member Discounts
- Become a Sponsor
- Tax Information
- Planned Giving
- Vehicle Donation
- Donate Stock