Is a casino in downtown Minneapolis a good idea?
Posted at 5:00 AM on October 27, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(47 Comments)
Filed under: Economy, Politics/Government
A developer wants to build a casino on the parcel of land known as Block E in downtown Minneapolis. The mayor and members of the City Council support the proposal, and may include casino revenue in a plan to finance a Vikings stadium. Today's Question: Is a casino in downtown Minneapolis a good idea?
Comments (47)
Do we really trust what Dayton says orfrom anyone in the government when they say what something will cost, only to find out a year later, the cost was tripled? Reminds us of this famous quote :
"The Quote of the Decade: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” ~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006!
I think, given the proximity to low income neighborhoods, the high unemployment rate and increasing povery levels, it would be a bad idea.
However,
if revenue will be used to fund the stadium , how about housing the whole-the hole- package out in Lake Minnetonka, a more suitable demographic for this type of activity. Imagine, a stadium and casino housed under one roof with access to Lake Minnetonka which has, as history has proved the potential to support a floating brothel-or Love Boat- for Viking team member off-field leisure.
Casino goers are not shoppers.
Really? I don't understand; what are all those people doing with all that money they just won?
Oh, that's right...never mind.
Yes, build a casino downtown Mpls - if you want to see crime rise in the area and commercial businesses close up and move away, leaving empty storefronts. Check out Duluth's downtown casino area. Streets are pretty empty there. Casino goers are not shoppers.
I don't feel I digressed from the spirit of the question too greatly. My point was before government started only pandering to the rich and big business, and reduced their taxes to near zero, they had money for infrastructural improvements like stadiums and roads to stadiums. Those taxes made it easier to pander to the rich and big business when those rich and big businesses wanted something from government like a stadium subsidized. Giving those tax breaks was supposed to give the rich and big business more money to build their own infrastructure. I don't get why they are asking for anything now. Kinda a catch22 don't cha say?
It's good for those who will make money from it.
It's not news that gambling is basically a voluntary tax on poorer people and those prone to irrational wishful thinking. What bothers me is how legislators refer to it benignly as just another way to "generate revenue".
My apologies to the audience for this digression into irrelevance, but Bear, let me assure you that I was aware that "reactionaryism" was not in anyone's dictionary. I coined it. It fit my need at the moment. I do it all the time. Sorry you took it so seriously.
Please stick to the question people. We're not talking about national politics or drug enforcement here, and those have NOTHING to do with the topic.
I support the casino idea. I would never be in there, but I support it if that means the burden will be taken off of a large base of taxpayers that wouldn't even use the stadium.
@ kimMN
The Obama stimulus has created lot's of jobs for us here. We've been busy building some very nice school, water treatment facilities, etc. But to be far the Bush/Halliburton administration created a fare number of jobs for us too. Because of the destroyed tax base we are building casinos all over the country also so municipalities can afford to meet their debts.
The casino is a good idea but why should government have a monopoly on a specific industry? If the government wants to create a casino to generate revenue then it should allow private industry to build casinos as well. Imagine if government made bowling illegal and the only place you could legally bowl was at a government run bowling alley? See how silly that sounds and yet we accept it when it comes to gambling.
A casino in downtown Minneapolis is as much a good idea as any other government economic idea. They all fail and cost all of us three times more than what is returned.
For example: Government has wasted $2.3 billion so far on bankrupt companies in green energy loans, while collecting how many millions in campaign contributions from the billionairs?
The Obama stimulus plan created thousands of jobs that were all for foreigners, not for jobs here in America ( e.g., GM, GE, and Fisker, etc.)
MN state government or the Federal government
should not be in the business to favor any industry, casinos or green energy.
Not while the War on Drugs still exists.
Sure,,, what could possibly go wrong?
However, I think it should be under government control… then it would surely work for the good of us all. Also, those poor Vikings need a new roof over their heads so they can play their cute little games.
∑
As a resident of downtown mpls I'm very concern about this Casino proposal. I haven't made my mind yet but there are serious concerns from the neighbours, is this really going to improve downtown? The comment that David made I think it is very valid and something I had not thought about. I'm afraid that the new owner of Block E will have us hostage until the city gives in on his plans...I know that Block E isn;t loved by everyone but reading the news article where must of the tenants that have recently left the complex indicate their leases weren't renewed simply doesn't make me feel too good about where this is going. If it was a plain private funding enterprise I would probably shut up but these people are also asking for our tax money.
I think it's necessary. I've been working downtown since 1982 and they have never been able to figure out what to do about competition with the malls or block E. The businesses that do stay are big city - theatres, music, restraunts and sporting events. Let's just call it what it is, a more adult mall and add a casino. They might even pick up some convention business out of the deal.
David -
Well played, sir.
They do Jim, it's called the state legislator and they are whoring for big business and the 1%.
Here's a very similar idea:
Why doesn't the state legalize and tax prostitution, and use some of the funds to help pimps build houses of ill repute?
You realize a single casino monopoly will eventually become a run down eyesore without competition and incentive to keep it up, and keep improving it. It won't be 10 years when the casino owner is asking the city to subsidize a renovation, just like the Vikings are basically asking for today.
I don't much care if they build a casino, but I am wondering how much better this will work out than the other plans to use this area. What happened to the excitement etc that was supposed to be Block E in the last 5 years.
As a downtown employee since 1988, I have seen at least a couple different attempts to make this a better area, and am not sure I really see that anything has worked.
I do hope that it will feel like a better area than the area around the Fond Du Luth casino in Duluth.
Emery, why is it our job or the gov'ts job to protect the ignorant from themselves? ...... well Wade, idiots don't die after they've gambled their cash\wealth and families futures away. they continue to live and hang around absorbing social services, committing crimes, pan-handling .... so .,... all in all I rather Minneapolis not become Atlantic City .. which in my opinion is a dirty nasty hole.
Nope... we have enough gambling as it is.. I'd rather close down some of the gambling that's present than add to it, no matter what reason.
When is the last time you have been to a tribal-run casino? Many, if not most of the patrons are well into their retirement years. They are not likely to add to the "sleaze factor" in downtown Minneapolis, but neither are they likely to be great supporters of a casino downtown in the Mill City. Going to downtown Minneapolis always is a hassle, and tends to be expensive. Going to a casino owned and run by one of the bands is much more convenient and less expensive. It doesn't much matter if Minneapolis builds a casino, but if it is to be done, it should be with the involvement of the Native American community. They have the rights to casino gambling in this state and they know how to do it. As for the Vikings stadium, it belongs in Arden Hills. It is a parcel of land that is lying unused for years, and would be a boon to Ramsey County's tax rolls. Moreover, there would be space there for tailgating, even camping. It would be an excellent venue for concerts as well. Keeping the Vikings in Minnesota is essential; moving them to Arden Hills gives a great improvement to Ramsey County, and to the fan experience.
Casinos aren't necessarily a bad thing. People choose to gamble - they aren't forced to waste their money that way. There are already lots of options to fritter away one's dollars.
Would a casino on block E do anything to improve the quality of life in Minnesota? Having a football team seems to improve the live's of a small percentage of the State. Would another casino in MN improve the appearance of downtown? Maybe - would probably look beter than the way it looks now. Would it draw significant out-of-state customers? Doubtful.
What other attractions would a casino bring along? Would it improve the quality of entertainment and dining? Doubtful.
Would it cause a rise in crime in the nearby surrounding area. Likely.
There would have to be more pawn shops.
I think Ziggy and the NFL should find their own way to pay for the stadium. If LA wants the Vikings NPTT.
sure .. it'll provide a nice place for legalized prostitution staff to hang out.
I work downtown, and I can tell you that I always feel safer on game days, when there are so many more people on the streets. With a casino, every day could be like a game day! Not to mention the private security guards and cameras that are prevalent at all casinos...
If the republican lawmakers don't want casino revenue for education, healthcare, etc., I would rather they go towards a new stadium than have to pay more in taxes.
I think it is all positive as long as it is done right. Higher table minimums and maybe no slots.
What is the negative? The lottery is all around and so are native american casinos.
It is a sad commentary that the media and our elected officials are so focused on a new stadium for milllionaire owners and players when unemployment continues at high levels, home foreclosures are increasing, more and more senior citizens are resorting to food shelves and the gap between the wealthiest and the middle class continues to expand. If only the media and elected offiicals paid as much attention to any of these issues, perhaps we could solve REAL problems.
We have an ever increasing number of financially desperate citizens, and now we're considering expanding gambling to buy a billionaire a stadium so that he and his millionaire players can get richer. Oh, and our citizens--those who still have money--can buy hugely expensive tickets to attend eight games per year. I just can't see why we wouldn't do that.
We're dealing with two addictions: the NFL addiction to greed and the psychological addiction to gambling.
I oppose any form of expanded gambling.
Expanding gambling to pay for a sports stadium is only a slightly better funding alternative than the cynical proposal to use Legacy Amendment funds for it, which the voters determined should be used for the ARTS! As for the expansion of gambling--Sure, Why not prey on Minnesotans addictions so that others can watch meaningless spectacle in a brand new stadium. No wonder Minnesota is no longer known for good government.
From the state's perpsective, if there is ever a good place to build a casino, the best place is where you can extract the most profits from out-of-state visitors.
The province of Ontario builds them in border cities (Sault Ste Marie, Windsor, Niagara Falls, Cornwall, etc.) and profits handsomely from out-of-province visitors.
Minnesota doesn't really have the equivalent of a Windsor, so I suppose downtown Minneapolis is as good as it gets.
Not sure about issues like treaties with Native Americans, and other issues (competition, lack of demand) that may make the economics dicey.
However, it's hard to imagine that a downtown casino will increase our collective addiction; I assume those with the need are already hooked by the currently available options.
We should open gaming, but the state shouldn't be running the place. Open gaming to private enterprise, charge a hefty one-time licensing fee to open the place and tax it at the normal rate. The one-time fee could be put toward a one-time project like the stadium (or other one-time expense projects if there were multiple groups looking to open one) then add the tax revenue to the general tax base. This keeps the state out of what some people consider an immoral industry while spurring growth in the private sector. It's all upside for the state and taxpayers.
OCassie ... I am sorry your MaryKay gamble didn't make you a winner! I tried to look up reactionaryism, but not in dictionary. Try "tongue in check" and a "sense of humor".
Sure, then people can volunteer to be taxed and lose money. They don't build those places on winners you know.
I don't go to casinos except if there is a musical act there. I can't afford to gamble.
But will people really go there? Will they leave their comfortable and safer suburban surrounding to venture into the inner city just to gamble when they could go to Prior Lake, Hastings or wherever Running Aces is? I doubt it. You can't go to a Timberwolves/Twins/Vikings game anywhere but down town, you have no choice, but you have a choice to gamble somewhere else.
What happens if it doesn't bring in enough money?
No. I don't think the government should be promoting gambling and the crime that goes with it. Also I don't think that the state should be wasting money on lawyers and court costs as they will be sued by Native American tribes for breaking existing treaties. If it was a Native American tribe running it then a large portion of the proceeds would be going towards their nation and the city and state would have to pick up the tab for infrastructure improvements and law enforcement. I just don't think a casino would have a positive benefit for Minneapolis, maybe they could put a Native American owned casino in Arden Hills on the campus of the stadium.
Bear: and Wade: HUH??
Your comments are typical conservative reactionaryism and have no relation to Emery's comment whatsoever. Look up "logic".
Such sensitive souls. Let's dumb it down even more.
Where does it say that I am against; gambling and or a casino. My opinion of gambling should not cause one to make that assumption. It's an opinion not a position.
"...why is it our job or the gov'ts job to protect the ignorant from themselves?"
Is it the gov't's or anyone's job to promote ignorance? To encourage ignorant behavior? To promote the exploitation of the ignorant? To facilitate economic predation on the ignorant? Government should not be in the gambling business.
Emery, extending your logic, we should also ban cosmetics ...
I love the idea of a stupid tax, but having lived in Nevada I can see the bad side too. Regardless if the plan for the casino is to keep the vikings, I vote NO. F* the NFL, they can afford to pay more.
Gambling is the crack cocaine of governance, a symptom of a dysfunctional society. It plays on human weakness and is a bad idea in all cases.
What does government have to do with my opinion as stated below?
Let's try it again for the sensitive souls out there.
Gambling is an activity for people bad at math.
No. Hell, no.
I probably won't go there, but I've got no problem with it.
Emery, why is it our job or the gov'ts job to protect the ignorant from themselves?
Gambling is a tax on people who are ignorant of statistics.
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