How would a state government shutdown affect you?
Posted at 5:00 AM on June 10, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(96 Comments)
Filed under: Economy, Politics/Government
Layoff notices are starting to arrive today for 36,000 state employees. They would be among the first to feel the direct effects of a possible state government shutdown. Today's Question: How would a state government shutdown affect you?
Comments (96)
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I have also been between panic mode and hopeful mode. This is going to affect my family directly. My husband got out of the military to help me raise our twin daughters with a 14 month old daughter. He was working, then got laid off for the winter. But the company that promised to hire him back on didnt because they downsized. We were stuck until he found another job. But unemployment ended as he was in his starting semister for school. Also his job ended that same week as that company had to down size as well. We had to go on state help to make some of the bills and be able to eat. We own a farm and have fought for several years to not loose our house. We have barely been able to keep our heads above water.
We are both up before the sun rises to take care of the crops. My husband leaves midway through the morning to head to school then comes back to help again. He works but because of the funding, only gets 2 days a week.
We are supposed to get our check from welfare on the 1st of the month but might not be able to get it. I am facing loosing my electric as that bill was supposed to come out of that check and I have a disconnect on my table as I type this.
We are very hard working people that have just been sent on a hard road. I respect every state worker and teacher and think its terrible what this government is doing. They are playing Russian Roulet with the common worker's lives. And the only ones that wont win in this terrible game is the workers, not the government.
I am afraid that nothing will change in our politics as usual until there is a public referendum restricting health care for elected officials to the equivalent of MA level, and canceling their salaries and per diems if they are not behaving maturely enough to actually uphold the Constitution - and provide for the common good.
And, come ON, the added tax burden on a family with TAXABLE income of $150,000 would be only 98 bucks a YEAR. As a percentage of their total, this is not a huge amount. But for the Senior or disabled person survivng on less than $1000 a month, adding taxes to clothing, food, and medications could be devastating.
I really doubt that for the average man or woman, that gets up everyday and has to go out to work to support their families without the benefit of some state job which up until now has been totally isolated from what people in the private sector have had to deal with, layoffs, bad economy, etc., will be affected that much.
Now if you're on the dole and the state is paying your rent and feeding your kids, yes, you might be inconvienced but don't worry, this won't last. The whining will be so overwelming that Dayton will have to give in.
I think a shutdown of the government is the BEST thing that could happen to Minnesota taxpayers. It's time to sort it out and get rid of the bloated system that we have allowed. One more thing. If you're not crawling into a coal mine everyday, you don't need to be in a Union. Especially when they're government sponsored. Go Governor Walker!
I am an intern for the state. I was just offered a promotion, but I can't take it because there is a hiring freeze. I got my layoff notice saturday. I am a full time student for the summer and the fall before I graduate from BSU. I use financial aid to pay for school and I don't know if I will get that aid in time to pay for my books and rent for the fall or if I will make enough money in my state job to pay for books and rent. I wonder if the state shuts down if I will be able to finish school basically. And with only one semester left of schooling before I can enter the job market, will I be rearranging my life yet again for the state shut down?
I like what I heard a caller say on your show that the government is becoming more of a dictatorship than a democracy. They will tell us whether or not we can work, live, succeed or otherwise; all because they won't negotiate with each other.
My life is riding on this. Everything I have been working for for the last 3 years is coming to a halt because some rich guys in office can't make a decision. They should all be fired. If it were a corporation and they were the board, the CEO would make their offices vacant. Whatever happened to, "do the most good for the most people" concept? Isn't that what government should do? There is NOTHING good coming of this childish, selfish game.
I am a teacher at a charter school which has already had to waste money on interest payments (at market rates) because of the 30% educational funds holdback and now I am looking at not getting paid this summer as well. I agree that legislators should not get paid if they are unable/unwilling to to their jobs.
I work for a school district year round and even during the summer months, hundreds of families will be affected by a shutdown. I don't even think most families that have their kids in school age care realize that a shutdown means they also lose their daycare.
I cannot fathom how it's appropriate for politicians to allow this to happen, no matter what point they want to prove to each other. The Democrats feel that a shutdown will show the public how much the government does for you as a citizen and when their impacted, they'll vote for tax increases. The Republicans are on the other end of the spectrum and can't see the trickle-down effect of their budget cuts.
There is a deadline for a reason, and I don't feel that anyone should be able to walk away from the table until this is figured out. This would NEVER be allowed to happen in any business, in any way. If you don't meet your deadline, you get paid more to figure it out? Yea, that makes sense.
What a big waste of time and money preparing for a shut down that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Why hasn't the law been changed to prevent all this waste? Other states and the federal government have a law/procedure to make sure that things keep running when there is a budget disagreement. After this has already happened in Minnesota twice, no one learned anything? Everyone knows that the government can't shut down. Its like a game or maybe stupid joke.
A friend of mine received a letter today telling her that she might not get some financial support that she depends on because the the "possible shut down". It actually scared her. Just think of all the older people that dont have access to current information that also received a letter. How horrible for them.
When the law could prevent all of this if it was only changed.
WHY NOT SPEND TIME ON FIXING PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF WASTING TIME ON SOMETHING EVERYONE KNOWS ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
If it even comes to partial shut down, then it would be obvious that those services we could live without and probably should. That would solve the problem of where to cut spending.
I think the state bad chioces have caught up!!! There are so many programs un-needed. G.R.H. Is one. They pay $1300 for rent and this person still do drugs, get GA and food support...shut that down first!!!!
How about we start the shut down from the top up? How about the Legislature and Governor Dayton become furloughed state employees? I propose that they don't receive any pay or benefits for themselves or their staff members until they start playing nice on the playground and reach an agreement.
I think the people of Minnesota are a diverse group with various ideals, but I believe that there is always a middle ground and the "working class" could find it. Maybe the kids in congress would get further if they don't receive their allowance until they get their chores done.
I am affected on 3 levels by the potential shutdown.
1) I am a state employee
2) I am a student in the MnSCU system and taking classes this summer, and next academic year.
3) I have student loans and the clock for repayment will start the moment I am no longer a student.
I will be affected directly (student and employee) and indirectly by the repayment schedule on my student loans starting earlier than anticipated and planned for. My first student loan payment will be due in December instead of February. While I have planned for the February payment, the December payment and potentially having no income for July, make this very difficult to manage.
I have been a state employee for 4 years and each year, my agency has had budget cuts. Positions have been lost (50+) and we are doing less with less. Many individuals are not being served due to budget cuts. While the impact to me is immediate, the impact to other Minnesotans is also direct.
Let's focus, get it together and solve this issue!
Both my husband and I work in the MnSCU system, so if the system shuts down we will go from a dual income to no income and no health benefits. Due to the fact that we are a younger couple, we have not had 20+ years to save money and prepare for a situation like this. I have been out of graduate school for less than 2 years; just paying for a mortgage, car payment, student loans, and other bills and expenses takes most of my paycheck (I should also note that my salary, despite having a graduate level education, is nowhere near what people expect state workers to make!) If the shut down even lasts longer than a month, we will really be struggling just to keep a roof over our heads. Like another person who posted her story, I am sick and tired of haters bashing state workers -- calling us lazy people who feel entitled. I paid my way through undergraduate and graduate school (and have about $50K in student loans between the two), and worked 2+ jobs at any given time. Even now, as a salaried professional, I choose to teach 2-3 classes as an adjunct just to supplement my base salary. I work up to 60 hr a week and have little to show for it. I chose to pursue a career in higher education because I am passionate about helping students be successful and achieve their dreams by obtaining a college degree. Does that make me a bad person? Do I deserve all this disrespect because I am compassionate and want to serve my fellow Minnesotans in a positive way? When the private sector was suffering, I was sympathetic and in no way celebrated employees being laid off. I wanted to help. Step aside from politics and consider how layoffs not only affect individuals, but entire communities - have some humanity. These are people's lives, and they work just as hard as others.
What's interesting to me is that all the same people who are saying "shut it down" or "cuts to education" also make the argument that we need to "work harder" and "move to the private sector." Sorry, folks, but if we cut education how is anyone going to be set up to be successful in those high paying jobs in the private sector? Isn't education the key to a good career and financial stability? How can you accuse someone of being lazy and then say "go to college" if the programs and services necessary to advance oneself no longer exist? And this includes both K-12 and higher education, since K-12 sets the stage for success in college.
Which leads me to my next point. Obviously, a shut down would affect my family personally. However, as a college educator, I am also concerned for all the students out there who rely on MnSCU. Many students I know are due to graduate in July - and now that may not happen, preventing them from finding employment. Even for those not graduating, not being able to complete summer classes may set them back a semester or more. There are currently 67,000 students taking summer classes in the MnSCU system, and 200,000 set to start in the fall. Shutting the colleges and universities down would have a devastating effect on all of these students. And it is not just this short term consequence that we should be worried about -- a lot of students who would be attending a MnSCU school, both returning and freshmen, are transferring out of state because they are not willing to risk not starting classes in the fall. Many of these students will not return to MN for college. That means low enrollment and lost tuition dollars for the state for the next 4-6 years. Fewer college educated Minnesotans will be a brain drain for our state, and in turn, both the private and public sector as well as the overall economy of Minnesota will feel the hurt.
My emotions are in constant flux as a result of the potential shutdown. One minute, I am in complete panic mode, and the next I am optimistic that a budget deal will be reached. I don't know if I should ride it out or start looking for another job, and if I get another job and then we don't shut down, do I just quit? I'm sure some employers will even be reluctant to hire laid off state workers knowing they might leave as soon as the shut down is over. It is a very stressful time for many people, and I only hope that as citizens of Minnesota and your respective cities and neighborhoods, we can set aside our political party and think about all the people this will hurt. We need to prevent this shut down!
Unless a court decides that certain core or critical services can't be shut down, I would be immediately and severely affected. I would have no way to get out of bed, no way to get to a bathroom (think about that one), no way to get to food or water and if the machine that helps me breathe during the night was removed by the rental agency, no way to keep breathing. I've been in a wheelchair 51 years since having polio at 14, and I'm one of the people on the personal care attendant program. I have no living family or able-bodied friends who could help me.
I have read that there are politicians who would oppose such a court order, who would say it is unconstitutional. Are these people truly as heartless as they make themselves out to be?
It will hurt our family because of the medical insurance. My five year old is Type 1 Diabetic and needs about 1,000 dollars a month in medical supplies. The uncertainty is the hardest part as my husband is also deployed.
There are not many other providers that require or utlize the licensure I currently have. Scary times....
The reporter this AM said Universities were also closed this summer....and that is not true!Metropolitan State is running a full summer session....and we do not know at this point what will happen to our 10,000 students and their classes!
ck
"....paid Progressive propaganda blogger posting here as Steve the cynic."
I wish!
And, if you think I fit your apparent definition of progressive, Kr, you haven't been paying attention to what I've been posting. Take your ridiculous conspiracy theories elsewhere. Or, better yet, keep posting them. It undermines the credibility of the Gang Of Plutocrats when when they tolerate folks like you taking their side.
This question brings about many other questions, does it not?
At the present time- I don't frankly know how this would effect my household. It depends on how long it would last and which services would be suspended.
As a solution- our representatives must key on the protection of the publics interest. Isn't it that simple??
I do not see this going on right now, nor is it refered in the other responses.
My own solution would be to suspend ALL state funded activities in GOP districts, including the use of State lands (highways, parks, government centers, waterways, hospitals, correctional facilities, etc. ) I'd give it a week and call in said GOP representatives and ask how serious they are.....I'd lock them in a room with armed State troopers at each door. When they had an acceptable agreement on my desk they'd be allowed to use the bathroom. (thanks LBJ for this idea!!!)
Then we ALL would learn-
How serious are they??
How serious are you GOP voters??
For me- DIRECT ACTION is indicated.
Government shutdown for non essential services is what the progressives can use to stir their agenda.
Recall Obama's energy czar's statement of 2008 " the problem is how to get our fuel prices up to European costs ($8.00 a gallon_ to push the green energy agenda) The White House is surrounded by their supporters an who are they?
Terrorists in our own backyard are working closely with radical Palestinians to annihilate our greatest ally in the Middle East, Israel. Obama's close friends and conspirators are bankrolling a flotilla for the Palestinians to run weapons into the Gaza strip. These treacherous antagonists are part of the anti-Israel front group Free Gaza. Who are these enemies of freedom and democracy?
George Soros - Multi-billionaire who works behind the scenes to destroy American sovereignty and subsidizes violent seditionist groups across the globe. Visited the White House monthly?
Van Jones - Obama's former green jobs czar and radical socialist activist. (forced to resign once exposed) He founded STORM- anti-american socialist group advocating take over.
Jodie Evans - Founder of anti-war group CODE PINK, a group that calls U.S. troops "terrorists" and has provided Muslim terrorists with funding, supplies and support. (Where is CODE PINK protests now with Obama leading us in four wars ?)
Bill Ayers - Orchestrated the bombings of a NYC police department, co-founder of terrorist group Weather Underground and close pal of Obama. How about his wife orchestrating the Palestine flotilla to antagonize military response from Israel?
Eric Holder - Attorney General who sues one of our own states over the fed's not_ enforcing the border? Allows private business to be sued by the unions (Search on Boeing for details)
Given that alone, anyone should wonder what the real agenda is? Black unemployment is over 25%, some states have 12% rates, Control GM to push tax payer paid rebates to buy a Chevy Volt, giving buyers a gov. rebate of $8,000.00 per car and now they want to raise gasoline taxes by a $1.00 a gallon so electric cars can compete???
Shutting down non essential services just might get people to wake up and smell the coffee instead of listening to the paid Progressive propaganda blogger posting here as Steve the cynic.
To all of you who work in the public sector, or have jobs directly related to the public sector: If you have worked more than a year there, this statement should mean something to you. “ Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” In other words if you didn’t see this coming from what we have gone through last year and prepared for it, it’s your own fault. I realize you didn’t cause this but you should have seen it coming. For all those seeking a job in the public sector……kudos to you, but THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN! If you can’t afford to save up for this event that WILL HAPPEN AGAIN then look for a different job. It’s up to you. When I got my first job in 1990, I stared living within my means and SAVED for the future in case this would happen to me. A year worth or savings at least before you buy that fancy car or new home. Prepare, prepare, prepare.
"I think a lot of careless assumptions are being made without real information."
Really? Ya think?
In the next election, vote Republican for evidence-free public policy.
"For some reason State workers, especially schrool teachers, think they're entitled to a job. There's only one place I can think of where a job is an entitlement. It was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics."
That has to be the most ignorant statement I've read all day. All the state employees I personally knows are hard workers, dedicated to serving their fellow citizens. And the idea that what the Democrats want to do is anything even remotely similar to the USSR is utterly preposterous. That's what happens when you follow an ideology instead of dealing with real facts. It makes you stupid enough to believe such preposterous bullshit.
Well, I wonder about the busing to downtown. Right now I am doing a temp job for a company that will end just as the state closes, if they do not realize they need to fill the gap.
And resuming my unemployment will likely be delayed. Noting of course I will be fighting for a job among another 36,000 others or more....
Also you have the general services that the sate offers... What about car license tabs? Get pulled over and get a ticket because you could not renew??
And then there is resuming training to get a job, colleges will likely be shut down, and even if it is not the funding for the needy students will not be there from the state...
Talk about making it worse because some politicians are protecting Plutocratic ideals. Ideals that have never worked...
Does it matter if someone felt the recession first, middle or last? What kind of bizarre argument is that? You don't win anything by getting there first. Or last, for that matter. Can you explain more what you meant by that?
A shutdown would affect me in similar manners that any slowdown in the economy might affect me, such as the loss of a small shop owner who went out of business.
Because the budget stalemate is directly related to the current economic conditions, and it was those conditions that put tens of thousands of workers in the private sector out of their jobs, I'd like to point out that these workers were the "first" to feel the effects of the root cause of this budget problem.
I work at a 2-year College and am currently teaching a Summer Session course. My 48 students will be affected because the course ends in July; for several of my students, this is the last course they needed to graduate with an AA. 4-6 others are taking the course as a pre-req for graduate school this Fall. If a shutdown occurs, my course will not be able to finish as scheduled and I have no idea how it will be determined when it finishes. I personally will be affected by the loss of pay and possibly health benefits. I have surgery scheduled for the middle of July and am unclear if and how benefits will be extended. Then there's the question of Fall semester. There are so many questions that don't have answers. It's unsettling for all involved. MnSCU has petitioned to allow it to access reserve funds to allow for classes to finish (or start) for Summer session, Fall semester to begin, and for normal operations. It is going to be up to a judge to determine if MnSCU can access those funds; I am hopeful this individual will look at the situation from a human rather than political standpoint.
Why hasn't there been any news coverage on the thousands of private sector workers who will be out of work due to the shutdown? My wife is a social worker and she will most likely be laid off if this doesn't get resolved.
My wife and I are doubly blessed to be doing a job we love working at a state college, yet we'll be doubly cursed if the government shuts down, eliminating both of our incomes.
We have been saving extra the last couple of months to get ahead on mortgage payments, but its the health insurance that we'll miss the most. My wife is epileptic and it would cost us 1300 dollars a month to keep her on health insurance and keep her on her anti-seizure medication. That's a stiff amount even if we did have an income.
We try to stay positive, but its hard when we feel like pawns in a political game of chess.
Anyone who still thinks socialism is a real threat to our society is stuck in the past.
"The government shutdown will not effect me one bit; when the world does not come to an end on July 1st the governor will have lost his most powerful bargaining chip." - Posted by Jeff
Actually Jeff, you have that backwards. The Republicans in the legislature are the ones who should be, and are, fearful of a shutdown. Read the recent interviews. Dayton repeatedly says he is "pessimistic" and "expects" a shutdown. The Republican leadership in the legislature keeps saying that they're hopeful that a budget deal with be reached "at the last minute" and avert a shutdown. This tells you a lot about where their minds are at. At a time when the Republican mantra is built around rhetoric like "bloated and excessive government," the Republicans know that a shutdown would reveal just how far reaching and vitally important government is to our daily lives. A shutdown is the governor's strongest bargaining chip in this stalemate.
John, your argument that you live on a county road, yada yada, never using government services is quite possibly the most selfish argument I've ever heard. I hope that when the day comes that you need help from your neighbors, that they are willing to do the opposite of you and help you when you're down and out.
Andy T, the "real world" guy, and others are wrong to think that state employees have come through this recession unscathed. My agency, the Department of Human Services, has had rounds of layoffs--accompanied by rounds of anxiety-- each year for the past three years. Our staff levels are down 15 percent from 2008. My job was terminated in 2009. Other staff have had their hours cut, which affects their eligibility for benefits, as well as their ability to pay for benefits. State employees who have kept their jobs have had their wages frozen for the last two years. If state employees are laid off in a shut-down, we won't be paid.
And whom do we serve in Human Services? ---We provide or purchase health care for over 700,000 Minnesotans or 1 out of every 7 people in the state. That's 80 percent of our budget.
--Much of the health care is long-term care for seniors and people with disabilities, whether they get care in their own homes or in nursing homes or group homes.
--DHS runs some of those group homes providing care to people with some of the most complex needs.
--We train the 70,000 personal care attendants in Minnesota.
--We license providers of services, like day care providers, and we do background checks on the people they want to hire.
--We staff the state Security Hospital in St. Peter.
--We staff the Sex Offender Program in Moose Lake.
--We run small community hospitals for people with mental illness and brain injuries and chemical dependency.
--Oh, yeah, we provide cash assistance and food support (old food stamps) and child care subsidies and adoption assistance and refugee services to families with children. Before you get your dander up about the waste of supporting poor children in poor families, realize that that's only 14 percent of the whole human services budget and that families in Minnesota go off "welfare" (the Minnesota Familiy Investment Program or MFIP) in an average of 3.5 years.
--And operations, including employee salaries? That's less than 3 percent of our budget. I'd say we're a pretty lean operation.
Andy T, this is also the real world. I think you, your family, and your community will notice if we're not able to do our jobs.
A State government shutdown would affect me directly and indirectly. Directly: my business has four separate contracts with the state, both fairly small and fairly large. We will have to delay work on those contracts during the shutdown, and there is a risk they could be cancelled altogether. I may have to furlough or lay off employees, depending on the length of the shutdown.
Indirectly: all of the government services I use - parks, roads, schools, etc. - will have a backlog and poorer service to constituents.
I work with grants and our grantees won't be getting any money during a shutdown, so they are just as worried about having to lay off staff and contractors. Even if you don't care about government workers, think of all the other people who won't have work during a shutdown.
Jeff,
I am not sure where you get your information, but it is not true that state workers have always been paid back. The union has done a poor jub of getting the word out about the ramifications. I blame them for that.
The last time around it was a furlough, not a layoff. Employees were allowed to take 8 days of their vacation time, so that they did not have reduced paychecks. While I admit that is not a terrible consequence, for those who already have a planned vacation at a later time, it does have consequences.
This time around is different. By law, they are not allowed to pay retroactively. Also, employees will clear out their desks and they have been told NOT to assume that everyone will get their jobs back. There are no promises being made. Some employees have started jobsearching, because they have low seniority in the system or are afraid managers will be targeted if they do not bring everyone back.
This is serious stuff. I think a lot of careless assumptions are being made without real information.
I really can't understand all of you that think the shut down is only going to affect state employees and think it's a welcome to the "real world" for them alone. Don't you actually see the whole picture of the affects to every sector of commerce and humanity in our state? Please think about your fellow American's?
Get a heart!
Yes, it will affect me as a State Employee. It will also affect me and all others as private citizens.
There ia always need for Government. Without that it is "Somalia". Just ask those unfortunate people how much they wish they had a functioning Governement.
If you can't imagne how it is like without Government , just hope no major disastor like earhquake, flood, tornado, or floods occur. You will sure find out if one happens.
Gary F.
“To all the government employees.......
Welcome to the real world.”
Gary, I think we are twins separated at birth.
∑
DTOM
Lee - [I would be surprised if you even understand all of the things that state government does for you, or that you would depend on in unforseeable circumstances. This will also affect cities and counties.] *** I do actually understand what the state does for me and quite honestly I just don't use many state services at all. I'm sure there are some longer term maintenance issues (roads) but once again my point was those will not show up on July 1st, the state government will have to be shutdown for months before significant infrastructure problems occur. By the way, to the state government workers who are worried about losing pay when the government is shutdown; every other time this has happened the state did go back and pay all the state workers in full. That may not happen this time but there is a high likelyhood it will happen again.
"The government shutdown will not effect me one bit; when the world does not come to an end on July 1st the governor will have lost his most powerful bargaining chip." Jeff
I would be surprised if you even understand all of the things that state government does for you, or that you would depend on in unforseeable circumstances. This will also affect cities and counties.
Given that our weather prevents us from making repairs, doing surveys, etc. during a large part of the year. Being shutdown during the summer will mean that Minnesotans will see the affects for the next twelve months.
Don't assume you are untouchable. No matter how much you may wish to be an island, you are not...you live in a community.
Also, while it is not wise to run on a deficit, isn't it one of the key principles of economics that it is more about the capital moving freely through the system? The few billion they are fighting over is not nearly as important as the fact that they would stop a huge amount of money flowing through the system (e.g. contractor services, products, paychecks). That will slow down our econmy faster than any deficit.
I started working for the state last August after a 2-year stretch of unemployment from a private sector job. A government shutdown would be devastating for me and my family as we're just starting to catch up financially. So if people think I'm sitting in my little cube with some sort of sense of entitlement they are so very wrong. And "welcome to the real world" Andy T?! You think people who work for the state don't know what it's like to live on a bare bones budget? Don't worry about how they're going to make ends meet? My family has already experienced the pain of unemployment and financial hardship. We depleted our reserves trying to stay afloat the past 2 years and have only been able to build a small amount of savings in the 10 months I've had a job. So why don't YOU get off your high horse and actually find out what it REALLY means to live the so-called "REAL WORLD". For those that think state workers are just lazy loafers sucking off the goverment's teet, perhaps you might try getting to know some of us. There are quite a few of us who work hard at our jobs, who want to provide good service to the people of Minnesota. There are many of us who already know what it's like to suffer financially and are doing our best to provide for our families. I tried for 2 years to get a private sector job and wasn't able to get so much as an interview - and not for lack of talent, education or perserverance. State workers are just the same as any other person in the private sector. We are NOT the enemy. Keep in mind that if the goverment shuts down WE don't get paid, but the state legislators who didn't get their job done in the first place keep on getting paychecks. They profit while the rest of us suffer. How's that fair?
"GaryF" - I'm not happy that you have that level of uncertainty in your future. As for welcoming government employees to the real world ... we're there and always have been. We're not a separate species - we have family, friends and neighbors who gone thhrough what you have. We know "what" we have. My question to You and others like You is this.... ......... Is it your goal that everyone should be living at the bottom of the barrel? Is the common target that everyone should "suffer"? Because it seems like that is your goal. If you assume that government should out-source all of the work to private companies - know this - it wont' drop your taxes. Government will still have to pay for the services to the the work done. There is no win-win.
The government shutdown will not effect me one bit; when the world does not come to an end on July 1st the governor will have lost his most powerful bargaining chip.
AndyT - "For some reason State workers, especially schrool teachers, think they're entitled to a job." ================= acutaly that's what you think about what state workers and teachers. I don't think I am entitlled to a job, I think I've earned the one I have - but entitled ... no. As a state citizen - I do think that I am entitled to a legislature that operates on sound fiscal data, logical and commonly agreed data and consensus. What I have seen, on both sides, is a party-principles-only policy process. I have seen my fellow citizens spend less time actually studying issues for themselves by reading the bills - , reading the supporting studies, checking external sources, and talking to each other calmly and rationally.
Not for lack of simple and accessible resources - but because of the absolute flood of highly-palatable fast-food media including opinuendo, half-truth, sound-bites and out-right mis-information. We are becoming a largely media-managed herd of easily swayed voter-cows. I'm trying to break out and, thinking as I do , find myself some days sucking on pre-digested pablum. Oy its hard to stop and think for myself. I and you have to try harder. We are entitled to our opinions - true enough - but ... lets agree to make them informed from something other that "what we heard on the ...".
A state government shutdown would make it ever more clear to me how the two parties are clashing from two different directions.
- When Democrats circle their wagons, they put their most vulnerable in the center, i.e. women, children, sick and elderly for maximum protection. A common stategy used by our majestic American Buffalo.
- When the Republicans circle their wagons, they put their richest and most powerful in the center for maximum protection then let the little people fight their battles. A stategy used by the queen bee in a top-down setting. (Question for R's: So who is the queen bee?)
Andy T has got it figured out! Go Andy!
I'm a state employee. I've canceled several needed home-improvment projects. When I cancelled the work, the contractor said that they had more than 20 projects canceled by state employees in the last 2 weeks and they were now laying off employees too. For me personally, I've been living frugally after a divorce and I have some resources ... but not enough for a long time. I guess the saddest part of this is all the people who have had the misfortune of losing a job, a house , security for their family - acutally grinning and wishing this "worst-case" on others. Who are you that you actually want others to suffer? What a sick and stupid sentiment - wishing the worst for others. If I ever get to that point ... I'll know I've quit being an positive citizen and have defintely become an active agent against the success for this country.
@Sam
Unemployment doesn't send out checks anymore. You are either given a re loadable debit card or your payments are deposited into your bank account.
I chose to take a pay cut and leave my private sector job for a job with the state. I wanted to use my education and talent to better serve the people of Minnesota.
The pay isn't much but it is enough; I didn't take this job to become a millionaire on the dollars of my neighbors. I am dedicated and work hard for every cent. I am frightened by the potential impact to my finances as well as to the loved ones who have pledged their support despite their own financial struggles.
More than the concerns for my own situation, my heart aches for the potential loss of services to the people we represent. I am here to help the people of Minnesota, yet I will not be allowed to do so.
I work for a small business that has a large contract with the state. Shutting down MN would stop this work and devistate our company and jeopardize one of the many thriving small companies that Minnesota's Economic Developer's pride themselves in when trying to lure in other businesses.
So, when they try to say that raising taxes on the richest Minnesotains is going to drive away big businesses...Why aren't they thinking about the businesses that are trying to keep their head above the water that are already here and mearly trying to survive?!!
Please think about the hungry across our entire state, where do they turn?
I also live in Duluth, and they've already cut out funding to our beautiful city. If they think that cutting funding to parks and services is going to be the way to "save money"...this is the worst time to do that when the busy tourist season is upon us here in the Twin Ports and up the North Shore!!! for that matter the whole state.
Come together please NOW.
I am a Civil Engineering student at the U of M Duluth and am working for Mn/DOT this summer to gain experience in the field and help pay for schooling. I'll be getting my layoff notice quite soon now.
The question is, what do I do now? Start applying elsewhere in case it goes on through August? If I get accepted to a private firm and it only lasts a week or so, now who do I quit from and leave a bad impression on?
Additionally, the GOP proposed budget cuts to higher education, as is being covered here on MPR, will cause a tuition increase that I have to find money for while having no idea if I'll have any more income after July 1st.
TO THOSE WHO SAY IT DOESN'T AFFECT THEM: Good for you, I'm happy for you and your good fortune. I hope some day you find the humanity in you to care if other Americans like yourself are getting thrown under the bus.
Wouldn't affect me at all with one exception, what ever they close, don't shut down the Metropolitan Mosquito Control District. This is the most vital agency to the state's well-being.
In any event, all those state employees worried about losing their jobs, (at least temporarily), welcome to the real world like the rest of us. Lucky for you all the Legislature has to do is pass a budget, sink us deeper into deficit, raise our taxes and you go back to work. In the real world, if the State was a company, they would have declared bankruptcy long ago, close the plant and you all would be out of work permanently.
For some reason State workers, especially schrool teachers, think they're entitled to a job. There's only one place I can think of where a job is an entitlement. It was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
To use state budget vernacular, our household is in a lights-on operations mode. Both my spouse and I are unemployed/underemployed. We are able to pay our light bill and phone bill, but not our mortgage or property taxes. Should unemployment checks end because of a budget shutdown, the lights will go off, too.
Let's try to remember that all of these state employees are real people with real families. Some of you have forgotten about or perhaps never had any compassion for your fellow citizens. Those people have bills, etc. just like the rest of us. They also contribute to the well being of our state, not only by their work but also with their spending dollars. This is a loss for everybody!!!
I am getting laid off. I was informed today that I may not be getting my child support check. My father is in a nursing home who may not be getting the care he needs but the saddest part for me is that my oldest son will be graduating from Army Infantry school and I don't think I will be able to see him before he is sent over seas.
Let it happen so we can find out how it will effect us. There needs to be some compromies and maybe people need to see where all the state dollars go . .we want services, or demand them and then do not wish to pay for them. . . break a car axle in chuck holes, wait in traffic hours because the buses dont run. . .or worse. . . .
Has anyone considered all the people who will be furloughed if the government shuts down July 1st? If the state can't pay, the projects stop and the engineers, surveyors, construction workers go home. My husband, president of a civil engineering consulting firm, will have to lay off 100 employees. All projects that are funded even in small part by the state of Minnesota will have to be immediately stopped. This isn't just about rest stops and state parks, though those mean people's jobs also. A state government shutdown will have horrific consequences.
Ms. Millbright
I haven’t needed to visit the library in many years. I don’t know that I have ever used a wayside rest. I live on gravel road and couldn’t care less if road construction or maintenance ended for a couple of years…….I think they should get as bad as they are in Canada before we repair them. My wife plans on home schooling our children….those seem to be the brightest anyway. I agree completely with Lisa D and her 9:38 am post.
I am the epitome of ultimate American laziness. I have had a job since I was 15. Since I was 18, I have always worked at least two jobs, sometimes 3 (even while in full time school). I went to the U of M, accumulated tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, purchased a home seven years ago that I now owe $40 grand on (and lets also remind ourselves that that was my own stupid decision for thinking buying a home was an investment). Then I went to grad school and got my masters in Public Health because I wanted to make a difference in my community and my state - and what better place to be able to help so many people at once! But I now make less than I did in the private sector over four years ago (without a masters), and to this day continue to work two jobs just to get by. Who else is going to pay the $83,000 I have in school loans that I accumulated becasue my parents couldn't afford to pay my way through life?? And in three weeks, I will be uninsured for the first time in my life when I lose my job, which is only helping to protect vulnerable adults from abuse. Talk about something unnecessary! So I agree with all of you out there that think this is a good thing that is happening; I need to be taught the lesson that hard work, advanced education, and empathy and compassion for our citizens is a selfish and ENTITLED outlook on life.
Luke and Lee - Both correct. Thank you for your posts.
Get a Clue - Sorry to hear that you got your pink slip. Since it was no fault of your own that you were laid off, you should be able to get unemployment. See www.uimn.org to learn more and apply.
To those participating in the discussion about whether or not higher taxes will drive off businesses: You might be interested in this recent Star Trib article from 50-year Minnesota verteran business leader Roger Hale - Link to article.
Also, it's worth adding that many people in the upper echelon of wealth in Minnesota ALREADY avoid paying taxes by wintering in other states like Florida and Arizona. The argument that we'll drive them off because of increased personal income taxes is a bit of a red herring. The ones willing to leave drove off a long time ago. Dayton should resurrect his plan to gather taxes on the wealthy snowbirds that use Minnesota's resources without contributing their fair share.
It's okay if the government shuts down for awhile. It will do the public good to find out what the government actually does and what the impact would be.
After awhile perhaps 90 days, those remaining in government could evaluate and re-instate those areas which are necessary and add value and not re-instate those areas which are not as necessary. Running the government with PURPOSE rather than with ENTITLEMENT - what a concept.
The media, (including MPR) is making too much of this. Let it ride.....
I don't have a guaranteed pension. I have a 401K. And my employer doesn't match it any more. I have to pay considerably more for my dependants health insurance and have had increases in my out of pocket expenses not covered. People have been let go and put part time status at my company and our customers. The building trades have so many people on the bench that most of them have left the industry or gone non-union. I have no idea when I will be able to retire since I don't get a guaranteed pension.
The "rich" people I know are very cautious with their businesses because with all the new regulations and threat of higher taxes, it just isn't worth taking the risk to expand there businesses.
To all the government employees.......
Welcome to the real world.
Go Lisa D! I'll be losing my job with the state. My job that I have worked hard for and have done a good job for the taxpayers. Due to the economy and a previous job loss in the family, I'll probably lose my home. Don't worry though. We will rely on ourselves and family to get through it. Not our tax dollars.
A response to John posted at June 10, 2011 7:51 AM:
So you would not want libraries, schools, or road construction and maintenance? Because those are funded by state tax payers.
Hoping more people will think before posting sound bites here.
For example, suggesting one (not sure who?) "should strive to achieve on your own" instead of relying on "entitlements" and/or "socialism" short-sightedly, stupidly, and mean-spiritedly assumes that no one other than that poster is diligent or hard-working.
Indeed, restricting sound bites might actually help those politicians who seem to Rely on them so much to actually get to work and solve this issue instead of throwing yet another tantrum.
Hoping more people will think before posting sound bites here.
For example, suggesting one (not sure who?) "should strive to achieve on your own" instead of relying on "entitlements" and/or "socialism" short-sightedly, stupidly, and mean-spiritedly assumes that no one other than that poster is diligent or hard-working.
Indeed, restricting sound bites might actually help those politicians who seem to Rely on them so much to actually get to work and solve this issue instead of throwing yet another tantrum.
Hoping more people will think before posting sound bites here.
For example, suggesting one (not sure who?) "should strive to achieve on your own" instead of relying on "entitlements" and/or "socialism" short-sightedly, stupidly, and mean-spiritedly assumes that no one other than that poster is diligent or hard-working.
Indeed, restricting sound bites might actually help those politicians who seem to Rely on them so much to actually get to work and solve this issue instead of throwing yet another tantrum.
Let's clear up some misconceptions. This shutdown will be considered a layoff, not a furlough.
State employees CANNOT use their vacation.
They will not be paid while the government is shutdown, and there will be no retroactive pay. Some of them will be forced onto COBRA plans which will cost up to $1400/month. Other terms are uncertain, because the Management and Budget office is still trying to run the numbers. It could mean that the slate is wiped clean. That means that people who have worked here for decades will be considered to be year 0. That has major implications for retirement. Also, vacation would be paid out. That means a gigantic tax hit and if they are called back in a few weeks none of them will have accrued vacation to take for the summer.
State employees have been unfairly demonized for political reasons, but remember state employees are responsible for the safe roads and bridges, warning us when the air quality is unsafe like it was last week, taking care of our elderly, and many other things that the average Minnesotan depends on. Oh, and they do all of this for significantly less pay than their counterparts in the private sector.
Well,I don't have a 4th of July trip planned to one of our state parks this year, so me personally not much. But I do know some people that it may effect and it''s not good.
If the legislature doesn't compromise I think their benefits, pay checks and per diems (daily expenses) should immediately stop, they have failed at doing their job and the tax payers shouldn't have to pay for failure.
Instead of joining together to support all of the wonderful people and families in our state, our policical leaders (BOTH sides) are making themselves look like stubborn middle schoolers that cannot reach a comprimise. Being in government means supporting and serving those who rely on you even if they didn't vote for you and this is simply not being fulfilled - the lack of ability and willingness to compimise looks selfish and immature. Instead of cutting out 36,000 jobs that pay much smaller wages, we are going to continue to support and pay for those that have caused this problem in the first place - this is a horrible incentive. It reinforces their behavior because their jobs are not at risk. None of the congress members or the governor, who earn well over the average wage, should be paid until they can learn to do their jobs, which is to compromise and support the families in this state. From an economic standpoint, this could deepen and lengthen the local recession, increase the debt level of thousands, and create an even deeper hole for those already in trouble. Unfortunately, those most in need of help will suffer more than their fair share because of the unwillingness and selfishness of the highest earners in our state and their political supportors to sacrifice some of their pocket change for the greater good and economy of our communities. The conduct of our political leaders is simply immoral and harmful - as Americans and Minnesotans, we should be looking our for everybody, especially those that cannot pay us to do so or do not have a voice. I encourage our leaders to remind themselves that they do not work for a poiltical party or for the lobbyists - they work for the people in this state no matter what political party, race, age, or wage level.
I've seen some good ones since I posted second on this topic. Ha. Yep I'm the state worker. Shut it down? Yea, that's pretty dumb. There are already good reasons written as to why it shouldn't be shut down - but mosquitos? Come on. Sure, worthy work, however, there are better examples of needed state workers than that.
Blame it all on the Republicans? That's just as assanine as blaming just the governor. You can go back to blaming the Dem's for years of spending to get us here. Or Pawlenty for never raising taxes (although he did throw in some fees). I heard more about a Vikings stadium, gay marraige and selling beer at breweries during the session than I did the budget. I watched much of the session on PBS and saw nothing but pissing and moaning back and forth from all of them. Spend money here! Don't spend it there! Fire the Governor and the Legislature. Fire the voters for having one side Democrat and the other Republican. Yeah, the state does spend too much money though. On bike trails, On fancy equipment for conservation officers, on cable TV in state buildings (I know of at least one), on TV's (remember the big flat screens at the prison?), on lazy people that don't work and want handouts, on subsidized busing, on freeway lanes that only people with extra money can drive on, wasted on fancy schools, bus stops with big flowers on top (N MPLS), on fancy sound barrier walls along the freeways, by giving tax cuts to big companys and rich people - all people, on spraying for mosquitos, on fancy trooper patrol cars (give them all Ford Fiesta's!). The list can go on and on. No we don't want to end up like California. Yes, government should be providing the essential services. Not trying to beat the Jone's. There is a lot of waste in government and it isn't the employees. All the crying about municipalities not getting their share from the state - perhaps the cities and towns are all wasting and giving away money in irresponsible ways as well. Yes, shut it down and we will all see how much the state employees are needed. At the same time bring in some outside auditors to find out where all the money is really being wasted at.
Maybe the Feds can take care of that illegal immigration so all the people not working and getting handouts can have a job? Maybe Minneapolis shouldn't be spending money on fancy library's and "art water fountains" then they wouldn't need a handout from the state? Maybe those in Minnetonka should spend a night in N MPLS and see that perhaps they should give a little more? Oh, this is all just a never ending pain in the arse isn't it?
The government needs to be prepared for recessions and emergencies. Tax rebates a la Ventura and tax cuts during economic good times have been irresponsible. The government needs a reserve.
another question that has to be answered by the legislature...
after 2 weeks of layoff all unused vacation up to 260 hrs and 40% sick leave has to be paid off... with the number of employees, it will add up.. It is so sad and stupid that people think we state employees got gravy jobs..how many people would put up with what we do..it is a job.. the legislature originally made the departments and created the programs and needed people to work these programs. Now they fight over it, and we are pawns..
instead of trying to better everyone's jobs, it's race to the bottom...
Dear Get a Clue people: I truly am sorry for the situation you describe. However, if the top 5% were driven away, there would still be a top 5% that the Dems would want to tax more. You and I both have a family budget that we must live within. Why can't the state also live within theirs?
The initial “Shut R Down” comment is ignorant…….however it is equally ignorant to continue funding everything as we are. I do not live in any city. My entire township (Kandiyohi County) has no pavement (and I’m not begging for it) I choose not to have a cell phone, TV or AC. I have never had a car loan. These are the hard choices I make to balance my budget. I have enough money without relying on my state to give me any. I think the state needs to make some hard choices and cut the budget instead of increasing it in any way. Whether we should tax the rich more, is not the point. Minnesota needs to live within it’s means.
Well folks, that time has come which I was dreading. I got my pink slip yesterday
afternoon. My tiny nonprofit is funded by MDH grants. This afternoon my boss sat
the staff down to let us know we will not be paid after June 30th. We don't have funds to employ the staff during shutdown. The government shutdown that is looming is no longer a joke for around the water cooler, it
just punched me in the face. Mortgage, car payment, utility and grocery bills,
student loan payments need to be paid...and with what money? The government
shutdown does not only affect state employees, it also affects those of us who
are community workers doing the business for the state. State workers can
actually use their vacation during this shutdown, we cannot. We can't even
collect unemployment. So, when you are talking with colleagues debating political philosophy, let them know there is a face to this 'game'. My little 4 and 2 year old innocent kids will be in jeopardy of loosing
their home and predictable meals for the sake of protecting the top 5% in the
state from additional taxes in fear that 'they will move away'. Well good, maybe
they should so the rest of the 95% of us peasants can feed our families and make
an honest living! The economy does not work if only 5% of the people are
spending money!
Your entitlement mindset and expectations are the root of this problem. Perhaps instead of socialism you should strive to achieve on your own?
It would force me to spend less at all the small local businesses I support - grocery stores, bakeries, hardware stores, gas stations, day care, etc. So in addition to being a pawn in another political tantrum, I am also being forced to make my friends and neighbors (who have already been hammered by this recession) party to this outrage.
If we really lay off anything close to 36,000 people and take a significant part of the $100 million bi-weekly state payroll out of the economy every one will feel it.
The money allocated to state government does not stay in St Paul. It is spent in a variety of ways and on a variety of things in communities all across Minnesota to benefit all the residents of the state.
Explain to me how not doing this is a good idea?
"Not paying their Fair Share" ?? Do some research before you play that card. Those in the upper brackets already pay the same percentage or more than the rest of us. Why make them carry a heavier load?
It will not have much impact on me personally. I have family members that have just been affected by huge medical bills. They had to fill bankruptcy because the main check earner in the family had to go on disability due to two knee injuries on top of his spouses cancer cost. They are just setting up their new life with less income, and have depended heavily on state programs from insurance to fuel assistance. They worked all their lives so far and as they approach retirement it has been hard for them.
So pardon me if I am not to sympathetic to the Rich cats that are not paying their FAIR SHARE, having to pay at least what I do. I am sorry for the employees that will be impacted by this, but I want Governor Dayton to hold his ground for a fair system. Do not balance on the back of the poorer members of my family. Put the load on me and the Rich above me on the pay scale.
Pretty much the only two aspects of government that would directly affect me are that my state parks would be closed (I rock climb and hike a lot) and that pot holes in the roads would probably remain there for longer (I ride a motorcycle every day and potholes are a motorcycle's natural enemy).
My opinion on this is that they should start cutting back on people who are not necessary first. As the state is currently running without a budget plan I would say that anyone in charge of making that plan probably isn't necessary. Perhaps cutting their jobs would be a big enough incentive to get that budget figured out.
John, if it weren't for government workers the mosquitos of America would still carry malaria, yellow fever and other serious illnesses. It is because of government intervention, beginning around the turn of the 19th century and continuing through today, that you can even live in relative safety around mosquitos.
I'm sorry that you aren't willing to look past Faux News rhetoric and actually research the things that government does for you. Government work is a large part of what makes America a great place to live. In fact, if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to write nasty comments on the Internet. You do know the Internet began as a government sponsored project, right?
Thank you "J" for being "real" about a shut down. Those that think if would be funny or no big deal if there would be a shutdown are not in being logical. Who would process their kids college application or their financial aid? Who will fix all the emergeny road problems as happened this past week in the heat? What about about all the welfare, medical help, drivers license tests and applications and license plates and tabs and state campgrounds and state parks and safety patrols on the lakes, etc, etc, etc..... You want everything NOW - no waiting in line for you licenses - have that road repair done now so you don't want to wait in traffic - emergency personnel had better come to your aid immediately and those parks and trails had better be perfect all the time....... The only shutdown I want to see is the employment of all those currently elected state legislators and the governor at the next election. They're the ones who think more of their political parties and political futures than of the people they are supposed to be serving.
See 8:03 post. (Fewer lab techs in the Health Department when the mosquitoes are just coming out?)
Mosquitoes! Are you kidding! This is exactly the wasteful spending we're talking about!
My husband is a state employee and I'm pregnant, due in December. Without my husband's health insurance, our finances will be in serious trouble.
On a broader note, it's bizarre to me how cavalier so many people are about the potential shutdown. While I am eager to see Governor Dayton stay true to his core values, I do not relish the idea of an indefinite stalemate. From the tone of the debate nationwide, it's as if state employees are the enemy- not our neighbors and friends, our police and firemen. As if somehow THEY are part of the perceived problem.
Luckily I have a backpacking trip planned for before the shutdown, and another one for September, so it works out fine for me.
However, a shutdown is a disastrously stupid action to do. If one happens I blame it all on the republican leadership. This will not be Dayton's fault.
There are too many handouts......cut, cut, cut !
You, Sir, are out of touch.
Well, I'd be out of a job, if only temporarily. :D
Honestly, we've budgeted every bill on my husband's paycheck alone, and we'll be alright, we hope. We'll be heavily dipping into savings, but God willing, we won't miss our mortgage payments. That being said, everything that can go on the credit card will--and we'll probably come out with a pretty sizable bill at the end of all of this.
We *will* be out of health insurance, but thankfully, it's just the two of us--and we're pretty healthy. Knock on wood.
I've been with the state for 1.5 years, and despite constantly hearing from our Legislature that what I do is relatively worthless and I'm a giant waster, I couldn't think of a more fulfilling job. Hang in there, state co-workers. You are invaluable people, and you're doing important work.
My wife and I both work for the department of revenue. We word hard for minnesota to make sure that money owed to the state is collected and assessed. We bring in more money that we are paid so shutting us down would make no sense at all. People also need to remember that the state collects money for state and local governments as well so if we are shut down, those entities will also not be receiving any money. And for those who think it will only affect the 35000 hard working employees your wrong. When you cant go to a state park, you will no longer be spending money at food and gas stations driving up and back. Those people will lose money and may have to cut staff.
The naiveté so far on this board is staggering ... "shut-r-down"? Even if so-called essential employees are still at work, those agencies will be short handed. Less highway patrol over 4th of July weekend? Fewer lab techs in the Health Department when the mosquitoes are just coming out? State funded road construction will stop. State Veterans health programs stopped or short-handed.
Perhaps a shut-down would be good, if only to demonstrate to people how much they actually depend on state employees. Perhaps it will take the death of a driver because first-responders are over-loaded for people to get their heads out of their backsides.
I would like to see a shutdown for an extended period of time. We need to find out what our priorities as a state really are. We don't want to end up like California. A shutdown would not include vital or emergency services. That is all our government should be anyway. We need it stripped down to what we need .....not what we want. We can't afford what we want. There are too many handouts......cut, cut, cut !
Not for me and my supporters
Ask me again on July 5. I'll probably know by then.
Shut R Down.
I work for MnSCU and I'm actually looking forward to a shut down because I'll be able to spend time home with my children. My husband and I have also been discussing the possibility of me being a stay-at-home mom but have been afraid to make that leap. This will be a good test to see if we survive financially on one income.
Will it affect me? Not so much. Will it affect others with more unique circumstances? I have no doubt that it will.
It's not enough to create a plan from which one might eventually compromise; one has to actually be willing to compromise to have improved the odds of a solution.
I work for the state. First it has completely put to a screeching halt being able to have my 9 year old son here with me from out of state for the summer because I can not afford to spend money to get him right now as I don't know if I will need the funds to survive later. Next, family vacation for August is also put to a halt for the same reason. Third, if it lasts more than a month, I will probably end up losing my house as I am unable to afford more than one mortgage payment without a paycheck. On the positive side, I might be able to get some cheap projects done around the house and do some fishing.
Let's shut it down and find out......
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