What do you think about the hearings on Muslim "radicalization"?
Posted at 5:00 AM on March 10, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(50 Comments)
Filed under: Politics/Government, Religion/Ethics
Today a member of Congress plans to hold hearings on what he calls the radicalization of American Muslims. Critics say the hearings will fan the flames of anti-Muslim hatred. Today's Question: What do you think about the hearings on Muslim "radicalization"?
Comments (50)
FACT: 200 Somali Muslim young men are missing from MN, One was found among the suicide bombers. Over 2,000 are missing from Canada..get a clue, Islamist radicals that believe in jihad are operating in the USA. Representative Keith Ellison from MN is a sympathizer; look at the funds he accepted for his mosque tour trip last year, and it came from CAIR. This is how they slowly influence our government, one at a time gets elected, they gain sympathy and privilege to push for accepting Sharia Law. Florida judge just ruled last month to allow the application of Sharia Law for former mosque land owners law suit.
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>Spanish Inquisitors seen in Washington.
>John D. Rockefeller reincarnated in Wisconsin.
>World ends May 11.
Whew....just in time.
"We are so willing as a people , a culture, a society , a country to believe that worst about anyone else" You stop by St. Barts for Loaves and Fishes, Union Mission, Mary's Place or Our Saviour's Housing. Many conservative and liberal Christians not believing the worst about others but serving in the name of Christ.
Trying to remember a sermon from one of the services I have attended at Baptist, Catholic or Lutheran churches where we exhorted to kill non-believers. I have heard anti-Semitic remarks from time to time or concern about suppression of freedom of religion in China and Pakistan but never a call to arms to kill others. Can anyone of those who are writing that Christians can be extreme too find anything in the the Gospels or the writing of St. Paul calling for the murder of others. Be sure to let me know if you can.
If we are going to hold discussions on radicalization, perhaps we ought to include the radicalization of American politics, both on the right and left.
The Republican strategy for winning is generally generate hatred, get people fighting one another, divide and conquer, and divert attention from what has really gone on and is going on in this country: the concentration of most of this country's wealth and power in the hands of an extremely small minority, who look to the Republican party to do its dirty work. This Republican congressman will certainly find support among a sizable percentage of the population who are ready to get in on the act of vilifying and demonizing an ethnic group. They will focus on that and not see what's really going on.
Demonizing public school teachers, public-employee unions, Muslim communities--all part of the same strategy. You have to give the Republicans credit: they really know how to do this.
We tend to judge other groups by their worst examples, and our own by the best. Abraham Lincoln was white, but so was Hitler. Idi Amin and Martin Luther King, Jr., were both black. Both Mother Teresa and Timothy McVeigh professed to be Christians. Osama bin Laden professes to be Muslim, but so does (Nobel Peace Prize laureate) Mohamed ElBaradei. The real problem is xenophobia.
WOW! National Palestinian Radio NPR
http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/10/new-video-npr-was-going-to-accept-muslim-education-action-center-donation-and-hide-it-from-the-government/
The comments about radical Christian extremists being more of a threat than radical Muslim extremists go too far in the other direction, it seems to me. Yes, they exist, and it's a problem, but overreacting to such misguided folks only encourages them by feeding their delusions of persecution. (Terrorism is a crime, not a monster.) Those who consider themselves either Christian or Muslim and believe that terrorism is an appropriate means to live out their faith have grossly misunderstood what their religion teaches.
"There are no - none - not a one - christian fundamentalist strapping bombs to their wives and blowing up men, women and children." -
when you have other means at hand - you save the more physically destructive ones for last. Bad idea's spread like wildfire in America and can do more damage to a good and true idea than nearly any other form of attack. We are so willing as a people , a culture, a society , a country to believe that worst about anyone else. This congressional hearing is a prime example of our character defect in this area. Congress is our national monkey flinging poo!
What a bit of pointless pandering for the accolytes of fear and the 24-7 news cycle, on the American taxpayers dime. Shut that hearing down - save the taxpayers money for something real and tangible - like infrastructure, medicine, food, energy.
What church did Timothy McVeigh attend? Will the government be looking into them next?
I think that most people don't know enough about Islam to have an informed opinion on the subject.
Please read the "The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran" by Robert Spencer. If half of what Spencer says is true, hearings like Peter King's should have happened long ago.
It seems to me that before we hold meetings about the "threat" of radical Muslim's, we need to hold meetings about the radicalization of Christianity. Far more fear, damage, and loss of life in this country and all across the world can be directly linked back to radical Christians. I fear them, more than my Muslim brothers and Sisters.
"The Obama administration persistently has stricken the concept of Islamic extremism -- whether foreign or domestic -- from U.S. public policy. In 2009, the Department of Homeland Security drafted a Domestic Extremist Lexicon that listed Jewish extremism as a threat and described various strands of purportedly dangerous Christian extremism but made no mention of any form of Muslim extremism. This document was pulled along with other questionable Homeland Security publications once their contents became public. The February 2010 Quadrennial Homeland Security Review discussed terrorism and violent extremism but DIDN'T REFER TO RADICAL ISLAM IN ANY CONTEXT. Likewise, the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review avoids any terminology related to Islam. Mr. King's hearings are a useful step toward opening up the debate on the pressing problem of domestic Islamic extremism. Mr. Obama's inexplicable tendency to turn aside from the question has harmed the ability of the United States to deal with this threat." --The Washington Times
The Southern Law Poverty Center recently released a report that numbered the ultra-right armed miltia groups currently extant in our country as upward of 1000. For the most part these extremists adhere to an absolutist form of Evangelicalism. So rather that focusing on the radicalization of Islam in the US, it might be far more advisable to scrutinize the radicalization of Christianity.
Ok, Nate. Let's not forget about the radicals in Wisconsin targeting Gov. Walker...
I think Rep. King would do well to investigate the radicalization of the Republican Party, particularly its Tea Party component that "targeted" congressional candidates during the midterm election.
@ paul
The Christian fundamentalists don’t have to strap bombs to their wives to blow up men women and children. They have stealth bombers, tomahawk missiles, drone aircraft and a whole lot more sophisticated ways to blow them up. These are the same climate change denying folks elected by the American people.
"There are no - none - not a one - christian fundamentalist strapping bombs to their wives and blowing up men, women and children."
That's true as far as it goes. There are, however, white supremacists and "militia" groups (many of whom consider themselves Chrsitian) stocking up on weapons and ammunition, and actively training to carry out "2nd Ammendment remedies." And yes, some of them have engaged in acts of terrorism, such as the Oklahoma City bombing.
Paul, that 75% number for mosques actively advocating terrorism is pretty shocking, to the extent that I don't believe it.
Could you provide links to the reports you're referencing?
Yes there are others who might be considered terrorists, but the facts are that the vast majority of the actual terrorism that is taking place in the world and targeted against the US is from Islamic fundamentalists. There are no - none - not a one - christian fundamentalist strapping bombs to their wives and blowing up men, women and children. Recent reports show that 75% of mosques in US teach and train for radial sharia law - which includes terrorist acts. To avoid looking seriously at the very real threat from these groups is to put our heads in the sand and go against what we all know in our hearts. Thank goodness for the father from Somolia who bravely spoke the truth at the hearings today.
The Department of Homeland Security issued a report last year documenting a sharp increase in the number of hate groups in the U.S, including neo-nazis, white separatists, "nativists" and other radicalized extreme right-wing organizations. These groups have promoted violence and in some instances carried out violent attacks on U.S. soil. Why aren't Peter King and Congress holding hearings about this? According to the Southern Poverty Law Center' Spring 2011 report, the number of hate groups in the U.S. has now topped 1000, and this year alone, they remind us of the following events:
"In an 11-day period this January, a neo-Nazi was arrested as he headed for the Arizona border with a dozen homemade grenades; a terrorist bomb attack on a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Wash., was averted when police dismantled a sophisticated bomb; and a man who officials said had a long history of antigovernment activities was arrested in a car filled with explosives outside a packed mosque in Dearborn, Mich."
There are a number of neo-nazi and white separatist groups here in Minnesota. I'm a lot more worried about them.
Why is King not talking about these ACTUAL events, documented by Homeland Security? could it be prejudice? racism? meretricious abuse of power?
Radicalization in general should be the focus. However, that being said, 84% of Egyptians say anyone who departs from Islam should be killed. Stick your head back in the sand on that one if you must, but that disturbs me.
I had a good chuckle this morning when I heard that Rep. King was referring to the reaction against his hearings as "histeria"-- as if he weren't deliberately tapping into the xenophobic histeria of his base. This is simply a ploy to get people worked up so as to distract them from the real threat to our republic: creeping plutocracy.
Some people are religious, the question is what to do with them.
Tocqueville and Machiavelli were at opposite ends of the belief spectrum but agreed on the importance of religion. Machiavelli said a leader must appear to be religious and encourage others to follow religion, so as to control them. Tocqueville, on the other hand, said to deviate from religion's morality is an act of violence against our own will, and without it, mere democracy is not enough, because it will degenerate into self-interest and manipulation.
These two perspectives taken together illustrate the idea that a predisposition toward religion is, like many traits, held by only a portion of the species. This religious sentiment held by one segment of the population is a resource to be used by a leadership class, a lever at their disposal in directing the people.
For thousands of years this trait distribution has expedited a leadership structure, providing certain groups advantages over other groups in terms of war-making and civil order, much like bees, hence its Darwinian reinforcement. Machiavelli saw this lever, and provided instruction as to its use. These hearings will have to walk a fine line; further exploring the use of the lever, without revealing to Tocqueville crowd that it is a Machiavellian exercise.
There is something to be said about how easy the Muslim community can turn to “radicalism” that I’ve often wondered about. Take Salman Rushdie and the Jyllands-Posten cartoon controversy. Having grown up Lutheran it seemed crazy to think that an alleged religion based on “peace and love” could act in such a way. If there was a radical Lutheran sect threatening murder on anyone disparaging Jesus, the moderate Lutherans would be the first to stop them. I wondered why the rest of the Muslims weren’t doing more to stop radical Islamism and how things like the events of 9/11 could ever.
It ends up a lot (probably the mass majority) are working to stop the radical parts of their religion. Most of the terrorist threats of late were only thwarted because of information given to authorities by other Muslims. Unfortunately the part that gets the most news coverage (even here on MPR) is the more radical parts of the religion, or reactions like our rightwing friend here Peter King is doing. There IS a radicalism happening in their faith. There IS a clear and certain threat to the U.S. because of it, but on so many levels we seem to only fan the flames of that radicalism and I have a feeling this event will be one more of those times.
There is a radical Christian agenda here in the United States closely tied to the party of the right that is more dangerous to us and our long term security than any radical Muslim here or abroad. Both sides seem to feed off each other and use each other as subterfuge to further their own political ambitions, greed, and short term gains. You cannot look at the radicalization of the Muslim faith without doing the same with the Republican Party and the US in general. Our rightwing agenda is just as dangerous and scary to the Muslim world as radical Islam is to us.
I think this is ridiculous. All religions have "extremists". Besides, this isn't the real issue. The real issue is about hate, which is inevitably power. When we can learn to accept people for who they are we might actually have something worthwhile.
I am an American Muslim. Why should I have to prove anything? I am a regular person, like everyone else. That there are criminals who commit crimes and profess to do it in the name of my religion is a problem, but the problem is with the criminals and not the religion. The hearings should be about radicalization and not about American Muslims or Islam.
There is so much fear, hate, and ignorance towards Muslims already. You just have to look at some of the postings here to see that (e.g. "history shows that Muslims can turn on a dime"). Having a hearing led by a congressman who has already demonstrated fear, hatred and ignorance towards Muslims (see statements he made on Sean Hannity's show, he appeared on Brigitte Gabriel's anti-Muslim show, etc) is not going to help.
This is McCarthyism meant to radicalize the Republicans. There has been no American Muslims being any different then any other Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
It is clear when they have a enemy to victimize that they can call demons and devils of the world and stupid crazy stuff can be passed because they are distracted.
Last time they did this silliness was with Clinton....
At least with Reagan, Reagan talked with the Communists. He was at least rational about his actions in the end. Although I still see him as a criminal for a lot of other reasons...
Muslims outside the US where they do not have news organizations like NPR who are fact based are more prone to being leaning or open to being very radical.
Maybe they should expand NPR's budget to go out to the rest of the world.
Just like whats happened with rights being taken away under the fake pretense of needing to balance a budget that Walker put out of balance. (His tax break 4 days in gave away EXACTLY the amount the state is out of balance and then some.) and the claim the workers need to put more into their pensions and not have the state pay (When the pension is Union and employee paid and then invested... fully. Something I notice NPR is taking the conservative side by NOT talking about or investigating.).
My kids can't pray in school, but the government can discuss religion all they want. Shame on them.
McCarthyism Is very much alive and well in Washington. Makes me conserned that law makers will come up with other witch hunts to kill unions and crush worker. For those who slept through high school American History, this is exactly what McCarthy (R, Wisconsin) did: Distracted the country with the red scare and passed legeslation to cripple the unions.
Is McCarthy chairing these hearings, too?
We need to have this discussion, whether for good or ill. Bringing this subject into the public debate is the only way to deal with it, much like racism. "Bad news doesn't get better with time; I need to know." - COL Robert Fulcher, USA
"This a a time for the 'moderate Muslims' that want to come here and live the American dream"
This is a weird thing that I hear a lot. It's not like Muslims first arrived in America on September 11. They've been here. They're Americans. They have every right to the American dream already. And I don't think that's a nit-picky point, because phrasing it as "them coming here" casts it as an "us vs. them" scenario right out of the gate. You would never say "If Jews want to come here and live the American dream ..."
That said, I agree that this hearing could be helpful in a "Hey, what factors go into this specific problem so we can work with local authorities and Muslim communities to prevent it?" sort of way. Not sure that's what it WILL be, but that would be helpful.
I think the safest thing we could do is reach out to Muslim communities and make them feel more integrated and more at home. Becoming more inclusive will make us all safer.
To deny that we do not have Muslims within our borders that are planning to attack us is plain ignorance…history shows that Muslims can turn on a dime…look at the last 5 Muslims that either tried to attack this country from within and were caught in the process or the ones who carried out their plans and KILLED Americans (Ft. Hood TX, 11-5-2009). You always hear it on the news “I knew him all his life, he never seemed like that type of person”. These people are Radicals and you can’t change crazy. Not to mention the Somali's that left Minneapolis back to their home country to fight for a terrorist organization and were recruited here in MN. Somali's funding terrorist organizations from the US...its time to wake up and smell the coffee.
There is a term to describe these hearings, McCarthyism.
Let us look at this the chairman of the Representative Peter King, a man with a very weak record on terrorism. He supported the terrorists attacks of Sinn Fien/IRA and is on record as stating: "If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it." Sinn Fien/IRA consider bars and the civilain transportation as legitimate military targets.
I think its a bit strange to focus only on one group as being potentially dangerous, when there are others who pose equal dangers to the public. Just yesterday an arrest was made in the case of the so-called MLK bombing. The accused is not a muslim, but (allegedly) a white supremacist. Seems like Rep King needs to take off the blinders & widen his search for threats to our citizens.
Absolutely agree with people - this is a witch hunt and the real issue is the radicalization in general - Westboro Baptist Church, Tea Party - you name it. Hearings like this only inflame radicalization. A hearing or national dialogue on reducing radicalization would be worthwhile. I worry about our country as we are becoming that which we mock in other countries. Scary.
i really dont know much about it but all sides of the issue should be discussed and come up with a fair and equitable solution!
I think it is disengenious to target the Muslim community only. Radicalization is an issue in other communities as well. We just heard news recently on the number of radical militias in the United States - we need to focus on the whole problem, not shift from the core issue to a slice of the problem.
I agree with hiram. Haven't CF's attacked Americans because they belive in pro-choice? That's terroism isn't it. Rep King said other groups haven't attacked American...well?
I worry about America and what is happening to us.
I think everyone should get over their politically correct hang ups over this and discuss the issue.
I wish the Muslim community would get involved and further the discussion. Radical Islam is a problem in the United States.
This a a time for the "moderate Muslims" that want to come here and live the American dream like others that came before them to help us single out people the bad people so that the rest of the Muslim community can live in harmony with everyone else.
If you truly want America to have a better understanding of Islam, better step forward right now and take part in this.
If you want tired old chanting points like "McCarthyism all over again" you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
I think, "Why just Muslims?" We should be talking about how any group becomes radicalized.
It's McCarthyism all over again.
A common statement is that "not all Muslims are terrorist". This is true, but we need to be able to determine between them and why there has been such an increase in the incedents, (161 incedents) since the September 11th attack. An open and properly held hearing will be benificial to all moderate Muslim people. It will be telecast on C-SPAN for all the country to follow. I do beleive that the media has created a problem about the hearing that should not have developed. Lets have this discussion after the hearing is over.
A hundred years ago the problem was anarchists. Fifty years ago it was communists. Now it's islamists. I worry that the next problem will be Tea Party extremism morphing into a neo-anarchist movement. And white-supremacists have been a problem all along. The issue is not Muslim radicalization but radicalization in general.
This would only further drive a wedge between people and really, what valuable results could this "hearing" possibly achieve? Having people feel comforted that there are other ignorant, fearful Americans like themselves, some of whom apparently serve in congress?
That they should be extended to Christian fundamentalists.
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