Is it fair to freeze the pay of federal workers?
Posted at 5:00 AM on November 30, 2010
by Eric Ringham
(43 Comments)
Filed under: Economy, Politics/Government
President Obama has frozen federal employees' pay for two years to fight the deficit, but union officials say the freeze won't help much and unfairly hurts working people. Today's Question: Is it fair to freeze the pay of federal workers?
Comments (43)
The average annual income for a federal worker is approximately double that of workers in the private sector. Yes, their salaries should be frozen. In fact, federal salaries should be reduced to be more in line with the private sector workers that pay the federal workers salaries through taxes.
Yes and No. As long as we start with a wage freeze/ reduction on all the members of congress and the House of Represenetives first then I'm down with that.
To all the cry babies who want to slam the federal employee, shame on you! The federal employee is not any diferent than the employee in the private sector. Is our jobs a little more stable? Yes. Is that our fault? No. Do we have families and bills like everyone else? Yes. Is it the federal employee's fault that you decided to work in the private sector and was laid off? No. Everyone has the same opportunity that Idid, to apply for federal positions! Do I have an issue taking a pay freeze? Not really, cuz' I do understand that some sacrifices need to be made to help this country get out of the mess that our leaders(Liberals and Conservatives) have gotten us into.
Would this give license to all employers no mater how profitable to refuse any benefit increases for the next two years?
Considering that we who pay the salaries of government workers have had our pay frozen, yes I think it's more than fair to freeze their salaries.
Stop paying?
No.
That is slavery.
Stop pay raised?
The unions are right it will not help the deficit.
But it would be a act of good faith showing THAT was done and other solutions MUST be explored.
Thus removing it from being a excuse to not do what needs to be done.
Namely remove the tax breaks to those making over 250,000 a year.
Once you can pay for your daily food, your shelter, and have transport to and from work. The rest is excess. And 250K a year is well into the excess range.
Remember by national standards 50K is average income for a American. 250K is 5x times, or 500% the average.
This alone will not do it. Still more needs to be done. One might be Hire Americans instead of exporting jobs, that will at least re-leave the problem of unemployment and income for the federal needs.
To many fail to face fact the United States government is "WE THE 'FRICKIN' PEOPLE"....
Of course it's fair in this bad economy. Why should government workers be spared when private workers have had salary cuts, salary freezes, and lay-offs? I speak from experience.
Wrong question. If one works for the government, and there are cuts, one will be cut. As comments above show, a lot of people think govt empl. are overpaid and underworked, so govt empls. make a handy "them" to take out frustrations on when times are bad. Thus, they WILL be targeted for pay cuts.
Duane: Look it up on Politifact; you';ll find you're dead wrong. Search "government salaries"
Some people went for the money; the big house, nee car, fancy life. That' fine. I went for job security and service to country. Now things have gone south; your choice wasn't as good as you thought. So I'm supposed to take a hit to make you feel better? Don't think so.
Yes, it really is fair to freeze the salaries of government employees. Many Americans are unemployed, many more have seen their salaries erode, still more have taken pay cuts, many work 2 or more jobs to try and get by.
Still to be perfectly fair, all government employees, not just civil service, should be subjected to the pay freeze.
Perhaps members of Congress and their staffers can forego pay raises for 2 years in support of government workers. Maybe they would even be willing to give up some of their perks and forego some travel. Think that will happen?
Yes, it’s fair if you make it conditional on ending tax breaks for the rich and a cap on salaries for corporate CEOs and an excess profits tax on oil and—oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
NO! It is not fair to freeze the pay of federal workers now.
First on the list needs to be: Remove the Bush give away tax cuts for the wealthy.
Reagonomics trickle down theory--never worked either. The money continues to grow for the wealthiest and us 'little people' keep getting poorer and poorer as the wealthy continue building manufacturing plants in other countries and etc.
With the middle class monies continueing to disintegrate in our country, it reminds me of Charles Dickens immortal portrayal of poverty in London, England in his book " A Christas Carol."
Is this what will be happening in our country?
Sincerely
Disco - "Private companies are sitting on huge piles of cash right now that they aren't spending. Corporate profits are at record levels. None of this is the government's fault."
Actually the company I work for is not sitting on huge piles of cash, they are trying to survive like most other small businesses (half of all private sector jobs are from small business). They had to let 10% of the company go a few months ago just because the work isn't there. Some larger companies may be sitting on cash but that is actually government's fault. The government has enacted one of the largest programs ever created (the healthcare bill) where the effects on business are uncertain (they are still debating who gets exceptions to the bill and who doesn't and what type of paperwork will be required). On top of that the government has created a situation where we have no idea what tax rates will be a month from now. Raising taxes during a recession (or just coming out of one) is a bad idea, you can ask any economist. Freezing federal pay is one small step in the right direction when we are running deficits as large as we are today. We will be at 100% of GDP vs debt at some point next year, we need to cut as much as we can in government and we will need to raise taxes once the unemployment rate is down.
Yes, of course it's fair. And while I am totally NOT one of those who denigrate government workers (most of them provide valuable services to keep our state and country humming along), I think that federal workers should not be protesting the idea (there are reports of SOME doing so). They should be gracious about it, and thankful that they have jobs. And the relatively small impact on the debt and deficit is at least a start. Obama didn't suggest that it was the only action that needs to be taken, as some have suggested here.
I also think that people (individuals) earning over about $100,000 a year should be gracious about significantly increasing the taxes they pay. I earn less than a third of that, and I would be happy to pay more in taxes (though at my earning level, I can't afford very much more without jeopardizing my ability to pay my bills).
Minnesota state workers have had a salary freeze for the last two years, along with rising health care costs and the like. This is in addition to having to work increasingly harder to serve Minnesotans because so many state jobs have already been cut.
To all those whose justification is that private sector workers have undergone pay cuts, you can blame your employers for that. Private companies are sitting on huge piles of cash right now that they aren't spending. Corporate profits are at record levels. None of this is the government's fault.
Tell your employers to start spending. Your beef has nothing at all to do with federal workers.
p.s. I'm NOT a federal worker.
Yes, it is fair. The private sector has gone without pay raises since the start of the recession. The public sector needs to remember they are working for the tax payer. If the taxpayer isn't receiving annual raises, why should they pay for a public sector employee to receive a raise?
With respect to the argument that it is too small a savings to be beneficial to balancing the budget and cutting the deficeit, all savings are small, together they are big. We just need to find more areas to cut spending.
Only if the United States of America made a simple clear declaration that the criminalization of the world's most useful and beneficial plant was simply Unconstitutional and needs to end immediately for the sake of the people and the planet. Watch
The Union
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007&ei=COkfS7jaDoeqqAKgve0e&q=the+union#
Yes, it is fair to freeze the wages of federal workers. I am currently working for a company that has had a pay freeze in effect for basically 2 years now. I'm suprised it took this long to create the federal pay freeze, we should have enacted one when it became apparent that we were in a recession and it should not end until the US gets below 8% unemployment (I believe that was the number Obama promised to keep us under if we passed the stimulus bill).
Let’s look at this question for a moment shall we? The unemployment rate stands at 9.6%, that means thousands of people are right now not collecting a paycheck. For many of those same people their unemployment benefits have, or are about to run out. Our deficit is huge, I think we all agree and we must start somewhere to begin to get it under control. It’s interesting to me that we all are worried, (or should be worried) about our deficit, yet no one wants to take the first steps to begin to cut it. Is it fair to freeze, (not cut) the pay of federal workers? Hell yes it’s fair! I worked for a non-profit company for almost 15 years, during that time we had several years in which we had pay freezes, due to the budget. It’s what you do when times are tough. Remember, we are talking about a freeze – NOT A CUT! It is repugnant to me to think that there are thousands of people out of work, not knowing where their next meal is coming from and yet we have others saying it’s unfair not to give them a raise!
Wow, what a concept, to approach balancing the budget considering "fairness".
Maybe if we follow that line of thinking, we might arrive at something along the lines of "those who have an income over $250,000 should pay their FAIR share of taxes".
Yes, Next stop University of Minnesota .
Sure, go ahead and demonize government workers.
Then conveniently forget about our futile adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, costs for which the word "exorbitant" does not begin to describe.
Might I add that Republicans don't want to extend unemployment benefits under the hugely ironic excuse that the action would add to the deficit.
Apparently it's easy to ignore the thundering herd of elephants in the room. This is about priorities and Barack Obama is playing right into the Republicans' hands, as he has done since day one.
This is not what I voted for.
I am a federal worker and in my part of the government, budgets have been flat or decreasing each year for the last 5 years. Many job vacancies have not been filled and, in fact, some of those jobs have disappeared. In short, we are juggling much more work with fewer people.
What will a pay freeze do for me? It will be yet another cut in pay as our "raises" these past 5 years have not covered the cost of health insurance increases. Is this fair? No. However, I am willing to do my part if those that make so much more that I will pay some of their fair share in taxes.
Sure it's fair. And as I public employee I think it's a good idea. Now, if we are going to be fair, the Bush era tax cuts need to end as well and not be extended.
Yes, it's fair. Everyone needs to take a hit to reduce the deficit. The Government is trillions of dollars in debt. As I understand it, America does not own the debt. The interest on the debt is paid to China. This economic crisis could be devastating to America and people need to understand the severity. Not only should federal employees wages be frozen, but taxes paying for federal, county and city workers health benefits in retirement is ridiculous. Why can government employees retire with full benefits after a number of years of service? They live longer in retirement than they worked. And the taxpayers cannot continue to pay for it.
Since a decent amount of the country has been dealt a pay freeze or cut over the past few years, I'd say it's both fair and overdue.
I think neither Obama nor the Republicans who would have approved of this under Bush suggest that this is a budget fixer. $2 billion isn't a major step in the scheme of our overall shortfalls, but it still forces The Government to be in line with the people it works for.
YES!
Last two years a number of companies have had 10% salary cuts. We have had to tighten our budgets, spending, travel and IT costs. Why let the goverment keep increasing salary's and bugets when the private sector and households are decreasing spending.
i think the freeze is good because everyone else is doing it but the senate needs cuts also!
Sure it's fair, but what does it accomplish? I think it's just symoblism.
So many have said that the costs and size of government are too big.
It's amazing how many of those folks are now preparing to enjoy their newfound government jobs, beginning in January.
A better symbolic gesture would be to cut the salaries of these newly elected government employees. Oh, and scale back their health care and other perks too.
Why not? Mine has been.
Fair? As compared to what? When the tax cuts for the rich are rolled back then we can talk about fair. Until then, no, it is not fair to ask working people to serve as a symbol.
YES!
Welcome to the real world.
Why not? I work at a local non-profit and we have been on a pay freeze this past year. It doesn't matter where you work. If the company, or in this case the federal government, needs to make cuts to keep employees, benefits, balance budgets, etc, then sometimes pay freezes are necessary. I would much prefer to have my pay stay the same than lose benefits, have my hours cut, or worst case, lose my job!
Comparing average public sector salaries to average private sector salaries doesn't give an accurate or reasonable picture of the situation. You need to compare average salaries for an equivalent job. For example, the government has very few minimum wage fast food or retail jobs, while the private sector has a large number of these that drag the average down. I'd wager that a larger percentage of public sector employees are white collar than in the private sector.
I can't speak to the "fairness" of freezing federal salaries, and I agree that the dent in the deficit is insignificant, but I also know that every little bit makes a difference. And as David points out, and most of us probably know from experience, life is not fair.
Then again, if we're telling federal employees they won't get raises for two years, I don't understand why we don't expect people in the $250K+ income bracket to do their own part to contribute to deficit reduction by paying a bit more in taxes.
At first blush, I would say no ... but I bet the Pres. saw something coming down the road, like layoffs or hiring freezes and promoted the pay freeze so he can say, look something was already done, no need for layoffs.
No, it is not fair. Then again, life is rarely fair.
If memory serves, this is expected to generate a $2.5bn savings for each year it is in effect. In terms of a multi-trillion dollar federal budget, this is barely a drop in the bucket. It is symbolism and politics. If pay within the federal civil service were an actual issue, then there should be a commission, like there was in the 70's, to reform it.
"Averages" don't mean much in terms of pay and benefits as the civil service is not setup like the private sector - you're comparing a group of two million against the rest of the economy - any comparisons are meaningless without context. It has been my personal experience that federal workers tend to get paid less than their private sector counterparts - the additional benefits they get in comparison is only partial "compensation" for that lower pay.
For me, I always think there are certain indicators which show a lack of seriousness in dealing with a particular issue. I think of them as tells. In the field of education, Finland is one such issue. Whenever I hear someone talk about the wonders of the Finnish education system, and what it has to teach us about education in our own country, I know that person hasn't thought seriously about the issues that confront us. Where government finance is concerned, wage freezes are such an issue. It's not that wages can't be frozen, or more significantly, personnel costs can't be reduced, they certainly can be. It's just that I know when politicians are talking about that, sort of thing, what they are doing is engaging in a cynical act of diverting the public's attention from the real reasons for increased spending, among them out of control medical costs associated with the aging of the population.
A politician who thinks, or more likely gives the impression of thinking that a freeze in wages is a significant response to the budget crisis, is in fact, giving up on any real effort to solve it.
Perhaps it is fair, but let's not take this too far. Paying government workers adequately and giving them good benefits so they really want to keep their jobs is an effective strategy for discouraging corruption. Underpaying civil servants gives them too much incentive to supplement their income. If we go too far in this direction, the savings in taxes and fees could be more than offset by the cost of bribes that ordinary folks might have to pay to get government services.
Yes it is fair, although it is a symbolic gesture rather than a meaningful one. Federal employee salaries should be determined by using economic supply and demand criteria as the private sector uses. If the compensation is lower than the employee desires, he or she is free to seek a better situation in the marketplace and if the federal government loses too many federal employees, they will have to adjust their policy.
I don't know what impact freezing wages will have on the budget. However, I want to see the Congress take a pay cut.
In a deflationary environment, it isn't that big a deal. My question would be: "Is it stupid to think that freezing that freezing the salaries of federal workers will have a meaningful impact on the federal budget.
Very definitely. The average salary plus benefits of a government worker is over $100,000 while the average for a person in private industry is about $62,000. This is a disparity that one cannot justify by amount of education required or training. Also, anyone on Social Security had to go without a cost of living adjustment for the last two years. It is time to reign in excessive spending of this government, which as of this day has yet to pass a budget for the current fiscal year!!
Very definitely. The average salary plus benefits of a government worker is over $100,000 while the average for a person in private industry is about $62,000. This is a disparity that one cannot justify by amount of education required or training. Also, anyone on Social Security had to go without a cost of living adjustment for the last two years. It is time to reign in excessive spending of this government, which as of this day has yet to pass a budget for the current fiscal year!!
| November 2010 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S | M | T | W | T | F | S |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | |
| 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 |
| 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 |
| 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 |
| 28 | 29 | 30 | ||||
Master Archive
Recent Entries
- Have changes to the airline passenger experience affected your willingness to fly?
- Should marijuana be available for medical use in Minnesota?
- Do the struggles of Minnesota's business icons signal trouble for the state's economy?
- Do you know whether insurance would cover your losses in a major storm?
- What kind of recycling program would you be likely to use the most?
- Would you support paying people for organ or tissue donations?
- Have personal relationships in the workplace ever presented a problem for you?
- Do you think Facebook is a passing fad?
- Will you be less likely to visit the Minnesota Zoo without its dolphins?
- Should authorities in the Twin Cities change the way they warn people about tornadoes?
Public Insight Network
The Public Insight Network draws upon your experiences to help shape our coverage.More
Categories
Services
In The Spotlight
-
Sound Learning
Looking for ways to ensure your students are doing quality research from credible sources? Sound Learning is a launching point to Minnesota Public Radio's content on the Web. -
The Current Music Blog
Your daily note for good music, news and pop culture. With attempted jokes.
- Become a Member
- Member Connect Accounts
- Leadership Circle
- Sustaining Members
- Member Discounts
- Become a Sponsor
- Tax Information
- Planned Giving
- Vehicle Donation
- Donate Stock