"Cool Musical " is the biggest oxymoron ever!

I wanted to use this title partly so that I cold use one of my favorite words of all time: oxymoron. It sounds like a twisted curse that you could call someone, but beautifully encapsulates an idea, "a figure of speech that combines two normally contradictory terms." there's not many words like that. But also because in summarizing last weeks discussion, I realized that no one wants to admit to liking a musical, either on stage or film (except Rocky Horror, which might be the only exception to this rule).

I'll hereby make it easier for everyone by revealing a relentlessly guarded secret of mine, the movie I've seen more times than any other in my life is..."The Sound of Music." We used to watch it at least once a year when I was a kid, so it got a head start on all the rest. It still 'works for me' because of the situation that most of the songs are sung in: the teacher is teaching the kids how to sing, so it makes sense. For me, the idea of someone breaking out into song for no good reason is stupid, despite my love of music and the fact that I often quote song lyrics in every day life!

"Paint Your Wagon" almost worked for me too, because I loved the grumble-voiced Lee Marvin. The fact that he was cast in a musical at all was wonderfully screwy, but wait, what have we now? Johnny Depp singing in "Sweeney Todd"?!!? John Travolta, in drag, in "Hairspray"?!?!!?

So anything could happen right, even a cool musical being made?!

There's been a huge resurgence in their general popularity in the past few years and it seems inevitable that someone will try to make a cool one, or is there one already in your opinion?

Here's some of the 52 musicals playing on Broadway right now!!...

"Avenue Q" just opened here, and I think I overheard one of my co-workers saying that they were excited to see it, but I will let them out themselves!

"Grease" might qualify for some I know, but to me it is the epitome of everything we hated about American culture when we were young punks in the UK in the late 70's and I cannot get over that.

"Hairspray" might be the answer but I haven't seen it on stage or the new movie but I want to. Even John Waters, when he did the Fakebook with Mary, thought it was very very bizarre that it had been such a big Broadway hit.

"Jerry Springer-The Opera": The U.S. premiere of this opera that was conceived in the UK but inspired by the famous TV talk show, was recently at Carnegie Hall for two nights only, with Harvey Keitel as the lead?!?!.

"Mary Poppins" is the much-loved (by me) 1964 Walt Disney film and uses the ever-lovable cockney accent to full effect!

"Spamalot" I have often said that Monty Python and the Holy Grail,is my fave movie of all time but my dislike of musicals has me refusing to even acknowledge that this exists!

"Spring Awakening" The Duncan Sheik/Steven Sater musical about a group of teenagers trying to learn about life, love, and sex, is the reason why we are destined to have more musicals made both on stage and screen. It won a ton of Tony Awards. Duncan is perhaps the 'coolest' musician to have a hit doing this type of work. So far even the stage presentation based on the life and work of Dylan has failed.

Defend your faves if you can, but also try to fantasize about what would be your idea of a cool musical. Yes, let's make the musical cool again!

Here's mine: The missus and I saw "The History Boys" on Broadway last year which was not quite a musical but had elements of the form within it, the students sang songs in class to answer certain questions posed by their teacher. BUT if we used this storyline, about a bunch of high school boys (set in a Grammar School very much like the one I went to) but set it to the music of The Fall, it would work for me.

If you think about it, the Fall's music has a lot of repetition of themes running through it, like a musical tends to do and Mark E's lyrics are mostly spoken rather than sung, so it would not be a stretch if a character delivers the lines in that style.

Strangely enough he has already scored a ballet..."Curious Oranj".

To sum up, I know a lot about musicals but - as the subject says - I'm not a fan. I dare you to defend the musical or create a "cool" one.

Sadly, I LOVE musicals!!! I think there are quite a few cool ones out there! My mom raised me on the greats like, "White Christmas", "Summerstock", "Grease" (although, I actually love "Grease II" more!), "Xanadu" and many others that seem to have slipped my mind.

One of my absolute favorite movies of all time is "Newsies" and I absolutely ADORED "Across the Universe".

I think musicals, for the most part, are light-hearted fun and, being a music lover myself, they are what we wish the world could be. Unfortunately, I can't carry a tune & I sing like crap (despite what the game "Rock Band" tells me!) so I need to live vicariously through the glorious musicals...

The best musical ever is "Singing in the Rain." The story, the singing, the dancing, it's all great! This is a movie that can always cheer me up if I'm not it a good mood- it makes me smile every time I watch it. And now, I have my 3 year old daughter hooked on it too, although she claims that her favorite movie is "The Sound of Music."
So, Mark, there is one three year old and her mom out here who disagree with you- musicals are great!

I have never enjoyed musicals. Recently though, I watched the "music driven" film, "Once"- which the important people in Hollywood refer to as a musical. Actually, I think it's up for an award in the musical category!

If that is a musical, I have been converted!

I saw Spamalot! last fall. It was absolutely hilarious. You are missing out. Also, 'Dancer in the Dark' is an amazing musical and nothing like typical musicals. I bet you'd like it. It's probably my favorite film ever and I'm not a musical fan either.

I'm totally with Brenda because I can't sing and musicals make me happy.

I love Newsies, Across the Universe, Mary Poppins, White Christmas, Bye Bye Birdie, and the ultimate musical The Music Man! It's no wonder musicals have a dorky reputation because those movies are corny and cheesy. But I still love them.

The movie Once definitely redefined the genre of musical because it was so much about songwriting and not about bursting into song like...all of the above.

I was watching "Once" tonight and I was regretting not having seen it before responding to the "Soundtracks" blog -- so it's fate that I get to gush about it now! Perfect timing to bring up this blog!

"Once" is not the traditional musical by any means - and it wasn't made to necessarily *be* a musical. But about 60% of the film is music. In fact the director said "It dawned on me that rather than finding a good actor that might be able to sing, I needed to find a good musician that might be able to act." And it's absolutely INCREDIBLE. (I'm not quoting him verbatim by the way..)

If you are not into the vintage or newer types of musicals out there -- "Once" is the film to watch. All I could think throughout the entire film was "This is such a cool movie!" -- I dare you to try watching it and disagree.

I don't know anyone who has a dislike for "The Wizard of Oz". "Moulin Rouge" is completely different than any musical out there, but people tend to either love it or really hate it. I haven't seen "Across the Universe" yet but I've heard it's pretty darn neat.

If you really want to get a kick out of something, rent "Everyone Says I Love You" by Woody Allen. Take Julia Roberts, Drew Barrymore, Natasha Lyonne, Alan Alda, Goldie Hawn, Natalie Portman and Edward Norton, give them a script and tell them to sing. It's a little odd, out there and slightly uncomfortable to watch, but it turns out to be a pretty entertaining musical, even if you end up thinking it sucks.

I also love "For Me and My Gal" (Gene Kelly's first film), "Summer Stock", "On the Town", "Meet Me in St. Louis", "Sound of Music", "White Christmas", and pretty much every Disney musical (animated or not) ever made.

Of course you've got to love Singing In the Rain!
West Side Story, tacling racism, poverty cultural battle lines...What would the world be like if There were no modern redeux of Romeo and Juliet...Love every tune from it...Tonight, Maria, When you're a Jet, There's a Place For Us..My kids and I watched it at least once a year.

Oklahoma, the All-American western with naughty Ado Annie, Bad Jud, who was soo so menacing and then managed to show us that small glimpse of lonely humanity...good trumps evil with the sun setting over endless fields of corn, Aunt Eller showing that even then women were listened to and respected.

I personally would love to see this next presidential election night played out in song and dance...not just by the talking heads, but by voters as they leave the polls, the judges at the end of a long night...there woud be songs of hope and songs of despair...songs about love of country, the change begun by MLK, where both a black man and a woman are singing to the ghosts of MLK, Rosa Parks, Susan B. Anthony and perhaps even The founding fathers doing a dance number to celebrste the resurrection of the constitution..

Long live the musical. A small confession; I burst out in song at the drop of a hat, ask my employees or customers...so i'm biased.

I LOVE musicals. I have since I was a little kid, back then in the early 80's Annie was my favorite. I know many other people, men and women my age who say they watched that movie over and over.

Actually I just bought and rewatched Oklahoma last week. This was another movies I used to watch constantly. Oklahoma was made back in a time when a movie production was a "big deal." The choreography is breath taking and the whole movie is a lot of fun.

On a more modern note, Johnny Depp made a John Waters muscial back in the 80's as well. It was called Cry Baby and also starred Ricki Lake, Iggy Pop and Traci Lords. Imagine "Grease" on acid and you've just about got the storyline.

Matt Stone and Trey Parker, fresh out of film school made their very first movie called, "Canibal: The Musical." It is ridiculous fun. The songs are great. The movie is distributed by Troma and it helped launch their careers. Live action plays have since been made of the movie.

And what about that Bjork musical that was out about 10 years ago? Sorry, the title escapes me. It starred Bjork and her music, she was blind and worked in a factory. This was a great movie.

When I was rewatching Oklahoma last week I got to the "box social" scene and had the thought of "what would it be like if life was really like this?" I would love to be able to go to a party where everyone was a good dancer and a good singer and we could all bust out into a complicated song and dance, never stepping on each other's toes or singing off key. The innocence of the idea is very appealing, and I think this is something that people really like about the escapism that is a musical.

Dancer in the dark is that bjork movie ;)

but Cannibal! the musical is my favorite. And Charlie and the chocolate factory...the old version.

This might be a girly thing, but I have watched Moulin Rouge more times than I can count. The love story and Ewin Mcgregor's voice suck me in every time. I also have to give props to the latest pop movie musical Across the Universe. So many great Beatles renditions... I'm sure this will be on repeat as soon as I have it on DVD as well.

Aside from the movies, Les Miserables and Rent have to be my all-time favorite live musicals. Les Mis is a fantastic story - a classic. Everyone should see it once, or at the very least, read the book.

Growing up in the 80s, I don't thik life would have been the same without Mary Poppins, The Sound of Music, West Side Story.... Annie... and I know there are more that I absolutely loved as a kid!

I agree, I saw ONCE about a month ago and it completely changed my perception of what a "musical" is! I think I loved it so much because they didn't have all that lame dancing and such; it was about the music, pure and sweet. I suppose it was more of a music video anyway, but it did a great job of cutting into the audience's emotions.

LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS!!!!! This movie was one of my favorites growing up in the 80's. How could it not be? It has everything! Human eating alien plants, evil dentists, nerds getting the girl, humor, blood, wedding dresses....

then, when I was 13, in 8th grade...my brothers highschool drama club DID THE MUSICAL LIVE!!!!! I had never been in so much awe of a production before in my life. There on stage, was Audrey II herself... I fell in love with Seymore all over again with every verse he sang.

It's a wonderful musical. I was able to see the live real broadway production a few years back at the Orpheum..every time I see it...it gets better. :)

If you were to ask me, I would tell you that I hate musicals for some of the same reasons Mark stated. People breaking into song for no reason, entire townspeople just happening to know the steps to very complicated choreography? Come on!!!! Get real!!

I would then have to (somewhat grudgingly) confess that I've seen quite a few musicals during which I have wept like a baby, have hummed songs from the movies in public, and have even done a brief dance move or two while doing the grocery shopping while thinking about a particular song that stuck in my head.

Musicals aren't meant to be cool. They're escapism, fantasy, a willing suspension of belief of real life and letting go. There are days when it would be refreshing (albeit a bit odd!) if people would go about their normal day but sing their dialog to each other. (singing) "Good Morning Mr. Busdriver, here's my fare/May I have a transfer to Butler Square?" - "Why yes, here you go, watchout for that bank of snow " etc. Wouldn't that blow a few minds, eh?

I do like the "classics" like "Mary Poppins", "Singin' In The Rain", and the granddaddy of all earworm musicals, "The Music Man". I defy anyone to watch that without getting several songs stuck in their head!!

That said, there is a cool musical that came out a few years ago called "Hedwig and the Angry Inch" by John Cameron Mitchell and Stephen Trask. The subject matter may be a little disconcerting to some, but the music holds up as some of the best that I have ever heard in a musical. They wrote some well-crafted pop/rock songs that could also stand on their own outside of the film/stage show.

Lastly, I have found that if you put the phrase, "The Musical" behind almost any other words, it can be very amusing. Who wouldn't want to see "Morrissey: The Musical" or "I Love You But I Have Chosen Darkness: The Musical?" Hmmmm?

This is Dale Connelly from the Morning Show.
Thanks to Mark for opening up this topic, and to everyone for their comments. I admit that I like musicals. I even like Annie, and nobody who is cool likes Annie.



But why do cool people hate musicals in the first place?



I understand what Mark and Frick are saying about the disturbing sight of characters "bursting into song" for "no reason." It's true that people don’t do that, as a rule. But a work of art, on stage or on a screen, is not bound by the same rules that govern our ordinary lives, and thank God for that. We pay to see something that transcends our daily lives while speaking to the reality we face by triggering emotions we all share. And music gives dramatic characters a quick path to emotional truth.



Plus, when they sing and dance, it’s fun.



I think there is also a generational component to this. "Oklahoma" and "Camelot" and such were mainstream entertainment for our parents and grandparents, and today the works give off an odor that's a bit musty. But it's not simply a matter of age, since it is totally cool to like classic opera, where the greatest works are much, much older than the Broadway canon. But the people who loved "The Marriage of Figaro" the first time it was performed are all safely dead now, and we don't have to worry that by embracing their art we are revealing how very, very much we are exactly like them.



I'm encouraged that so many people liked the film "Once". It is beautifully done and perhaps musical haters warm to it not only because it "works" thematically, but because they can relate to the characters. I can only imagine, Mark, that you find it easier to picture yourself as Glen Hansard's character "Guy", than Gordon MacRae's character, "Curly".



Unless you've got a special feeling for horses that I don't know about.

I say "Wizard Of Oz" and my daughter has been watching all of the old Shirley Temple movies too, lots of song and dance there. I'll chime in with another vote for "Grease" (though I agree that "Grease 2" had a far catchier song or two) and throw "Labyrinth" and "Velvet Goldmine" in the mix.

When it comes to musical theater I have to agree that "Rent" is awesome, but my all time favorite would have to be "Hedwig and the Angry Inch."

Someone once told me, "I hate musicals, they are nothing more than cheap theatre." To that I respond, "Who cares!?" Musicals are fun and ridiculous, and I love that they make no excuse for it. I honestly wish people burst out into song more often (preferably on pitch)! Yet, I'm not the most perky, excited person you'll ever meet. I just like to be entertained every once in a while by the delicious fluffy cotton candy that is musical theater. :)

And to answer the question of favorites: Les Miserables is my all time favorite (I saw it when I was 7, I'll never forget it), Avenue Q, and (because of the awesome tickets my friend and I got on our last night before we both left for college on separate sides of the country) Wicked.

I think Frick, Dale, Kristen and others have hit the nail on the head when they say that the point of musicals is not neccesarily to reflect real life but to entertain us and allow us to escape from the doldrums of everyday existence. Musicals wouldn't be so popular in film and on Broadway if they did not tap into that need.

"Cool musical" is not an oxymoron, it's simply a matter of taste. Personally, musicals aren't topping our Netflix queue, but I will watch one with my daughter just to see the sheer delight cross her face. And children will break into song at a moment's notice. I've seen it happen thousands of times. Just this morning, Minnie was humming some kind of melody.

Now, Frick, if they could make The Wire: The Musical, I would go see that!

i think this is a difficult one for this station's audience. why? because i think musicals are a different kind of vernacular than rock, pop, or folk. those genres all kind of work together - there's a certain commonality (is that a word?) to their language. even jazz, which has a very internal language (meaning that it mostly speaks to itself) shares more with the rock/pop/folk genres. musicals are another thing altogether.

the problem i think most of us have with musicals is a certain kind of suspension of disbelief - namely, that a storyline, a narrative, can be given almost entirely in song. most of us nowadays can't do that. apparently audiences of 50 to 60 years ago could. i think most of us can tell that feeling of a musical, & we automatically revulse against it - its like the point in Monty Python's Holy Grail where the villagers all start to chant "he's going to sing/he's going to sing" - we want to be like John Cleese's character there, & just knock the guy out flat to stop the obvious cue from happening.

by way of illustration of this point, i wouldn't call "Once" a musical - its a love story, and sure they sing songs, but its not overtly to each other & the plot itself does not depend upon the songs to tell the story. i suspect this movie got by most people's musical-moment-gag reflex because as its about 2 singer/songwriters whose relationship is based upon the music they play, its only natural that they should sing. but, i mean, the songs weren't like "i think i might love you/please don't leave me..." being sung as they were saying goodbye in the street - it was them going into a music studio to record a song! one is a musical moment - telling the story in song - the other is what you would do if you were a musician - that's naturalistic storytelling. now Bjork's "Dancer in the Dark" (which several people have mentioned), that was a musical.

all that said, i do have some favorite musicals. in fact, i love musicals - i just have to put on my "Musicals hat", as it were, to appreciate them - i have to be willing to suspend my disbelief, open my ears, & catch their vernacular.

the classics for me would be the 2 famous Loesser ones - "Guys & Dolls" and "How to Succeed in Business without really trying" - that last has a very funny modern cynical perspective that i think most people here would love. i also love "Fiddler on the Roof" and "West Side Story" - 2 of the most impassioned statements in musical history. also, a much over-looked gem that just recently played the Guthrie here last year is "1776" - this is a truly brilliant, yet quite subtle piece of political theater. it may interest some here to know that the Nixon administration requested parts of that musical be removed from performance.

rock music has not worked terribly well in musicals in my opinion, for the most part - but there are exceptions. i would say "Hair", which is very powerful, and "Jesus Christ Superstar" (ditto) are the best. i'm not a fan of "Tommy", and i think "Qudraphenia" is really more a concept album than a "rock opera".

another very interesting work that i think really deserves a listen is "Moulin Rouge". i like because (a) Luhrman understands our modern inability to bridge that vernacular with our rock/pop ears, and so he has borrowed his libretto directly from our rock/pop standards - brilliant! & (b) i think it works.

lastly, i just wanted to say something about "Sweeny Todd". Stephen Sondheim is a genius - or so i've been told many times by people who should know. i myself am not too moved by any of his work. still, i respect Sondheim if only for "Sweeny Todd". the story i've heard is that Sondheim wanted to write a truly horrific musical - one that everyone was sure to hate (almost kind of like the storyline for "The Producers"). he wanted the subject matter to be grisly and beyond the audience's power of sympathy, and he wanted the music to reflect that horror. interesting that it should be so well-liked by our modern audiences who somehow lack the ability to "hear the musical vernacular" anymore.

Cool Musical an Oxymoron? Oh yes. The typical musicals (Grease, Oklahoma, etc.) are really annoying with their sunny tunes and big choreographed numbers that the whole cast perform. Group activities; Not cool. (Learned that in high school.)

That said I have seen several movie musicals in my life, and they weren't all irritating. Sweeney Todd is so dark and Fiddler on the Roof has the political backdrop that made it interesting.

As a child I loved the movies Guys and Dolls, Wizard of Oz and Willy Wonka (with Gene Wilder). My dad had to ban my renting Labrynth after I came home with it 6 weekends in a row.

I much prefer the music-driven movie, as someone called them. Velvet Goldmine (LOVE!) and Hedwig and the Angry Inch for example. I have seen the Beatles movies A Hard Days Night and Help more times than I can count. If these counted as musicals then I would say there was such a thing as a cool musical. Since they don't I'll keep agreeing with Mark on the oxymoron thing.

Growing up - my family watched alot of musicals. My sister used to iron clothes to musicals - not in-synch or anything, but we spent a-many summer afternoon in front of the tv watching "The music man" or "Seven brides for seven brothers" or "singing in the rain". There's other musicals too like "Newsies" which has some good actors but they sing to everything and anything - someone drops their pen or sits down in a chair and they break into a song about it. Conan O'brien had a segment once on musicals, something like "the home shopping network - the musical" which spawned "The Phantom of the Juicer". I say write a musical about a breakdancer traversing land and sea in search of some spare cardboard to spin on. Yeah-yuh!

When I was little--like six--I used to put on my parent's Evita album and sing "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" until I was hoarse. (That's probably less about musicals and more about young Jacquie's delusions of grandeur.) That said, I'll say with great pride that I think Andrew Lloyd Webber kicks ass. He can take the gravest subject and turn it into the most delightful, guilty-pleasurable Broadway fluff. And what's so wrong with that, eh? On the rock note, though--I've had a secret wish for some time now that the Fiery Furnaces would make their next album a musical. The weird turns their songs take and the offbeat tales they spin seem perfectly suited to a musical ("Chris Michaels" is a good example.) And my Fiery Furnaces musical daydream culminates with a live show that's, essentially, a musical play. That would be so awesome I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

I forgot one thing: Oingo Boing's song "Nasty Habits" would work perfectly in a musical. it's got the hooks, the chorus section where everyone could stop what they're doing and sing along, and even a section where there could be a dance piece. Very Broadway Danny Elfman.

I'm thinking this is a tricky discussion made trickier by the fact that there doesn't seem to be a universally accepted definition of what is or isn't a Musical with a capital M.

Someone above (ok, found it! Molly W.) was saying that if the Beatles' Help! & A Hard Days' Night counted as musicals she might think musicals were cool. I'd say that those totally are musicals. (And I might also make the case for Monty Python and the Holy Grail being a musical, even apart from Spamalot, Mark!) They may not follow the same formula as the old school musicals like Sound of Music or Oklahoma, but the music is definitely an indispensable part of the movie--shouldn't that define them as musicals? Then again, maybe that's also true of movies with incredible soundtracks like Garden State or High Fidelity...does that bump them over towards the musical camp?

As someone who plays in a pit orchestra for musical theater, I'm maaaaybe a little biased towards musicals being cool, so I find myself getting all defensive at the question even being raised. :) That said, though, I'm a much bigger fan of the more modern--and often much darker--musicals, like Wicked, Hedwig and the Angry Inch, or (going back a few more years) Sweeney Todd and Chicago. And I'm also inclined to think that quirky, self-aware musicals like Avenue Q and Urinetown go a lot farther towards being "cool" than the old standbys.

Uh, I could also say that the definition of "cool" is even more subjective...but I don't know if I'm prepared to open THAT can of worms. :)

I have performed in many community musicals before yet my view of musicals is still mixed. On one hand no matter what they are (about) the experience of a musical can be very fun. Though in my opinion certain musical stand above the rest. Those that have some intriguing story where the characters are put in tough situations. For example some of my favorite musicals are Fiddler on the Roof (at #1), The Sound of Music, the Music Man, and probably any other musical that has transcended its genre and is regarded as a great work of cinema. Why I think Fiddler was so great because it was not only music and dance, it was history and culture and the characters were placed in very difficult conflicts. Also I'd say I'm more a fan of older musicals. Then new ones all seem to have the same style, the same angst, the same guy with the really annoying voice from RENT. And although the crooners all had similar styles I would much prefer to see a musical with a Bing Crosby type any day. So I suppose my short answer to that would be because musicals are fun they are therefore cool (except for anythink by Andrew Lloyd Webber, I'm sorry I just hate Cats and Phantom).

WEST SIDE STORY!!!!!

WEST SIDE STORY!!!!!

Of course you all won me over to your side of the argument. Musicals are cool. Some are retro-cool like Oklahoma. Yes, Katie, West Side Story too!! Others are setting up new expectations for us, like Hedwig and AQ. I’m sure we are going to get many more cool versions of the art form soon. But I have to say a special thanks to; Torrey, Jess, Pat, Katie and of course my colleague from the Morning Show, Dale for recommending ‘Once’. The missus and I thoroughly enjoyed it on DVD last night. It billed itself in the extras as ‘a modern day musical’ and just as the first Katie post stated “was 60 percent music and relied upon the ability of two good musicians that could act.”

Glen Hansard totally won me over in the first scene. He’s singing and playing guitar on a downtown street in Dublin but transcends his surroundings beautifully. All of his musical performances are convincing. He made acting look very easy. His co-star Marketa Irglova was just as
talented. She lent the drama a wonderful air of magic. The story was poignant and did not resolve in a sappy way. We were left wondering what happens next? The inside look at the creative process was quirky yet compelling. The camera was hand held most of the time. The style created an easy intimacy, an artful balance of freewheeling improv and brilliant moments of transcendence. Bravo to the writer and director John Carney, who used to play bass in Glen's band The Frames.

Thanks again for a quality discussion.

Love is in the air next week so that’s what we’ll be discussing. I would highly recommend ‘Once’ for a date night with your best bud or just listen to the radio between 7 and midnight on Thursday. Happy Valentines!