Would you fish without a license?
Posted at 5:00 AM on July 14, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(50 Comments)
Filed under: Culture, Environment/Energy, Politics/Government, Religion/Ethics
It's the height of fishing season, but there's no way to buy a license during the state shutdown. Though the DNR says no, some local authorities have said it's probably OK to fish now and get a license later. Today's Question: Would you fish without a license?
Comments (50)
Keep it coming, wirters, this is good stuff.
Haha, soulhdn't you be charging for that kind of knowledge?!
Yes. Although I have a lifetime license, I feel every non-licensed citizen has an an OBLIGATION to fish without one during the shutdown as a civil protest of the shut down.
Carl, I'm glad you agree with me about the need for compromise. It would be nice if more people agreed with us, too. Sadly, we've elected too many politicians who got there by pandering to their base by promising not to compromise. The most eggregious example is Grover Norquist's abominable no-new-taxes pledge. Voters who filled in the bubble for any candidate who signed that pledge have only themselves to blame for any adverse consequences they're suffering from this shut-down.
Steve T.C.,
I still defend the intent of my post.
My original resort owner satire illustrates that no one could have said knowingly that this shutdown would happen, and then vote in a manner that would prevent it.
No candidate offers nor can deliver everything one wants and nothing of what one doesn't want. My choice is a compromise (where have I heard that word before?) taking into account all the issues they support and which are the most important to me.
Yes, Carl, I got that it was satire. It was, however, mis-aimed. Resort owners had been mentioned by an earlier writer, who was apparently trying to make the point that the shut-down was hurting those businesses. And the legislative districts that are densest with resorts tend to lean Republican, don't they?
//What's next? A license to be able to go out in the woods and pick berries?
Shane-
Yes, I believe so and they will be issued by the Arboretum. This will be a great answer to generating revenue in lieu of taxing those 7,700 millionaire Minnesotans .
They will raise the tax on tobacco and then on yarn (yawn) and then on that popular sport of apron making aka husband luring.
Steve T. C.,
You say your target was the Republican legislators, yet your original quote appears to target the resort owners. If it was not meant to, what was your point in singling them out? Of the two earlier posts that mention "civil disobedience", the usage of which you originally took issue with, neither one mentions resort owners.
My post is not "ridiculous", its satire. Maybe not the best attempt, but my point is still valid based on my interpretation of your quote.
Yes, I would fish without a license, luckily I bought mine opening weekend so I don't have to worry. I have a boundary waters trip next week and one of the guys going with does not have a fishing license, he plans to fish anyway (at least while the DNR is not around). Besides, the ticket would never hold up in court, the state cannot create a situation where you need a permit to do something and then refuse to sell that permit. All you have to do is prove that in good faith you tried to purchase the license and were turned down due to the state shutdown.....no jury could convict in that case and most judges would just throw the case out.
You are out of touch shane. The licence isn't a means to regulate who can fish and who can, but is a way to collect revenue to manage and support the great fishing we have in this state.
Very few of those fish you catch were born in the body of water in which you caught them. Most are born in concrete pools, raise by educated biologist and their employees, and trucked or flown to the lake where you have the privilege to catch it later. Even if the fish was born in the stream or lake where you caught it, that possibility too was provided by the DNR and our over sized government.
If I needed the fish to live, yes, I'd fish without the licence if I couldn't get one ... I don't fish for sport.
I believe sport fishing is best kept to a moderate minimum.
Also, I visit any land I choose with the greatest respect to the local bio-region and reasonable consideration to individuals relating to it.
@ Shane
And I hope someday they throw you in jail for it. However we both know the laws have no teeth. So you'll continue to steal from your fellow Minnesotans and nothing will happen.
Hopefully your boat will start on fire and you'll have to call the Coast Guard or Sheriff/CO for help and we'll see if you think the lic fees we pay are worth it.
The fact that you even have to get a fishing license is ridiculous. The fact that you have to get a fishing/hunting license on private land is even more ridiculous. What's next? A license to be able to go out in the woods and pick berries? I have fished my entire adult life without a license, and will continue to do so.
////Don't be ridiculous, Carl. I was merely alluding to the irony of supposedly pro-business Republican legislators harming businesses by refusing to compromise with Dayton.
Heave Ho, Carl-
Looks like your gonna need some assistance with removing Steve's carbon footprint from your embarrassingly conservative root chakra. Heeeeave Ho!
Though I think fishing without a license during the shut-down is not a legitimate form of civil disobedience, I would consider it entrapment if the DNR cites people for it, as long as licenses aren't available. (But then, I consider the enforcement of unreasonably low speed limits to be entrapment, too.)
Don't be ridiculous, Carl. I was merely alluding to the irony of supposedly pro-business Republican legislators harming businesses by refusing to compromise with Dayton.
"I would rather see educators get paid and recognized as much as the sports figures."
Careful, DTOM, you're tarnishing your anti-government, libertarian reputation. ;-)
Yes, however the fishing would only be within state parks. State law allows Minnesota residents to fish from the shore or wading waters that are located within the park without a licenses.
The parks might be closed to vehicles but they remain open for hiking and other day use activities.
To quote Steve T.C.:
"BTW, how many of those resort owners voted for "hell no" Republicans in the last election?"
Steve - your posting seems presumptive in which way and why resort owners voted for whom they did.
Are you suggesting that resort owners got what they asked for because they probably voted Republican? During the last election what should the conversation have been like between ma and pa resort owners:
Say pa, let's not vote Republican. Because a Democrat will probably become governor, and the economy won't improve enough, then there will be a budget battle so deadlocked that a government shut down will occur, then people won't be able to buy a fishing license, and then it will go on so long that it will affect our business.
By gum, ma, it's like I'm married to some kinda political prognosticatin' savant!
Yes. I am not a fisherman however I would fish without a license. The state CHOSE to shut down, limiting itself to essential services for public safety. Fishing poses no public threat and as long as fishermen continue to abide by respectful sportsmanship, they have a right to continue to fish. The state conceeded their right to collect revenue by shutting the licensing bureau down. If they want the revenue, they will open their licensing bureau, it's that simple.
yes. if that were my only means of food and it is getting there for quite a few people.
///That means no nation, no economy, no equality, no democracy. We will then deserve the hell we have created by our selfish need to fufill our desires. What kind of a person are you when no one is watching?
Jim,
We are already there.
Yes, but I'd use a pole labeled GOP and reel named Dayton.
NO. If you do you are steeling from the citizens of MN. You had plenty of time to get a license and if you didn't, that is your problem. It isn't the DNR's fault the the state is shut down so don't be PO'd at them for enforcing the law.
I also already have my fishing license, but if I hadn't already purchased it, and I wanted to take my kids fishing, I would take my chances and do it. I would hope that I wouldn't get caught; if I did get caught, I would hope that I could talk my way out of a citation. I feel like it's morally ok to do as long as I intend to eventually buy a license at my earliest opportunity. Conversely, if I didn't go fishing or buy a license, the state ultimately ends up worse off without my fee.
I haven't fished for years, and I do not recall ever getting a fishing license to do so. If I were to resume fishing, I'd probably do so from the fishing dock on Lake Nokomis, where I have never seen anyone enforcing the law. This is a tempest in a teapot, and cranking up folks for no good reason.
YES,
I have money in hand to buy the license. Time to get in the boat ....
I find it interesting that the DNR can protect fisheries and enforce the laws during the shutdown, but one cannot acquire a fishing license. The state is inviting people to break the law.
Yes, I would go fishing. In a state park no less! Tongue partly in cheek... --Think of the state of tourism and the economy if we were all to follow the law. Resort owners should have some recourse from the state due to the lost business.
Yes I would.
However, being an avid outdoorsmen / good citizen - I already have my Fishing and small game license for 2011.
PS. Steve the Cynic,,,, Yesterdays input was for professional sports in general…. Not specifically women’s tennis or whatever the flavor of the day was. My point is that the “athletes” are not helping to get this great country back on track. I would rather see educators get paid and recognized as much as the sports figures.
∑
DTOM
Yes,
While I'm lucky that I already have my liscence, it still is ridiculous that our state government cannot get thier jobs done as we do ours everyday. We do not have the luxury to not pay our bills and shut down the household because of financial difficulties. Choices yes, we have to prioritize.
DNR is a needed service, and should have been on the list. Sitting on our butts at home when we have access to what God gave us? Ridiculous!
No, I would not fish without a license. What makes this diverse culture a nation is our rule of law. If we as individuals decide to ignore specific laws because we disagree with them then we will have anarchy. That means no nation, no economy, no equality, no democracy. We will then deserve the hell we have created by our selfish need to fufill our desires. What kind of a person are you when no one is watching?
Whoa son, FISH ON!!
Purchasing a license is essential to supporting to infrastructure that folks use while fishing. Lake access, boat ramps and the stocking of fish as well. For my libertarian minded friends consider this a user fee.
And to the rest of my fishing buddies out there: "tight lines".
Addiction, yes.
Way of life, most defiantly.
What else is there to do? Sit at home on my butt watching TV? That's not for me.
I don't think calling it civil disobedience cheapens it at all. Thoreau refused to pay his pole tax because he refused to recognized a government that would allow the keeping of slaves. I refuse to pay my fishing tax because I refuse to recognize a government run by corporate shills and religious zealots. These same people call to outsource all "non-essential" areas of government. Who are they going to outsource the DNR too? The resort owners? I think not, thus the DNR is essential. Why are they closed?
OK maybe it's not hardly any form of civil disobedience at all. My true aspirations as soon as I find a few more like minded people is to stop off at my legislator's homes and run them out of state on a rail. Maybe dropping them off at the Wisconsin border. I think they would be a lot happier there.
"Some of us do NEED to fish."
Why? Is it an addiction? Obsessive-compulsive behavior?
@Steve the Cynic
Calm yourself. Some of us do NEED to fish. It's what we do.
Well I guess it's time to let the free market decide. Break out the dynamite and gills nets! Time to empty some lakes and make some money ;)
If it came down to a choice between feeding my family or fishing without a license, then yes I would.
I can do without the beer too!
It hasn't reached that point yet.
Civil disobedience??? Give me a break! I don't need to go fishing. I'll save civil disobedience for truly important things. The underground railroad was civil disobedience. Hiding Jews in Nazi Germany was civil disobedience. Ignoring Jim Crow laws was civil disobedience. Fishing without a license and calling it "civil disobedience" cheapens the concept. (BTW, how many of those resort owners voted for "hell no" Republicans in the last election?)
HELL yes I would! I'm not even a fisherman - haven't gone fishing in 25 years, but I'm thinking about going this weekend just to make a point, which is this: a government too incompetent to collect the license fees that people are ready and willing to pay has lost the consent of the governed to regulate those activities that require licenses.
I dare the DNR to fine people for fishing without a license during the shutdown. And I hope anyone who gets a fine appeals it to the highest court they can find, skewering the DNR in the process for finding the funds to pay enforcement officers but failing to pay a clerk to collect money and issue licenses.
This is ludicrous.
Not that I am a constitutional law scholar, but doesn't the Minnesota Constitution guarantee the right of Minnesotans to hunt and fish? If it is a constitutionally protected right, can they REALLY say no?
Most judges around here have a lot of common sense. Guessing if any of these tickets make it to court (assuming the county attorney will want anything to do with them!) it's a reasonable bet that reasonable judges might say: "DId you buy one after the shutdown?--OK, case dismissed."
Reasonable COs should also be giving WARNINGS instead of tickets.
I would if I had to, knowing that I would still be taking a chance if caught. If the question contained some moral inference, I would also buy the license when the government shutdown ended, even if I didn't plan to fish anymore.
The license fee contributes to the wildlife management programs that allow for the enjoyment of activities like fishing. A big reason why we got to this shutdown is a lack of revenue, and withholding some of that revenue would make a person part of the problem.
What will be interesting is........................Will I be hunting without a hunting license. If this lasts till Sept 15th, that's possible.
As an out of stater who has gone to Minnesota for over 30 years fishing, every year, twice a year, with advance reservations and fishing licenses every year (the DNR can verify that), the state has placed myself and group in an awkward situation. I will go fishing, but have a written document from the resort owner that I have prepaid to him, my fishing license fee, and that he will purchase it for me at the 1st chance available. Losing my deposit and having the Minnesota buisness give up it's needed income (it's a small business resort owner) is a two way hardship that I can not bring to bear. Whether you are a Democrat or Republican, it is time these two sides meet in the middle and let all of us get on with our lives. Their ideologies are getting in the way of so many. And, I would hope if I were checked, the CO would be open to hearing my case.
@Nathan
My pictures of TANK Walleye from last night would disagree with you.
This bite is on my friend. Get out there.
Yes. The issuing body has voluntarily invalidated itself. If licensing was an essential service, it would have remained available. Plus, the fish don't care if I have a license... They won't bite regardless!
I'm working on a website that will allow you to print your own fishing license, along with new driver's license, nursing licenses, birth certificate copies et cetera. They will all be free, completely interactive, no facts checked . . . essentially they will be worthless, meaning they will be exactly as valid as any such document issued by the State of Minnesota since July 1st. Civil Disobedience on a grand scale is called for here.
Yes! It is not my fault I cannot purchase a license...
Yes as an act of civil disobedience against the morons in office and the morons that put them there.
But other wise I do have a licence, and always would. The DNR seems to be one of the few branches of government where my tax dollars (licence fees) provide more then adequate goods and services for the money I spend.
YES, without question. It's not my fault the gov't can't pull their heads out of their backsides.
I'd gamble and hope I found a sympathetic CO.
No.
I have a friend who just got back from Afghanistan, who loves to fish. I told him he was SOL on the license thing and he said he would go anyway. I know he will buy one when he can though.
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