What state government services do you consider essential?
Posted at 9:21 AM on June 6, 2011
by Eric Ringham
(33 Comments)
Filed under: Politics/Government
Unless legislators and the governor reach a budget deal, much of state government will shut down July 1st. Services that are deemed essential will continue to function. Today's Question: What state government services do you consider essential?
Comments (33)
The State Service of Loving-Kindness, Compassion and Health, Generosity and Shared Joy, Equanimity, Peace and Harmony for and with all.
Keep it all, and make it better and smarter, including industrial hemp, medical marijuana, and recreational reefer.
I think that ALL state government should be shut down. The legislators and governor would then solve the problem immediately, because there would be rioting in the streets and government buildings burning. It would show everyone how important government is and hopefully put a lid on government and teacher bashing.
No matter what is decided - shut down or stay open...this infighting has got to stop. This legislature needs to DO THEIR JOBS (since they are getting paid while the state employees won't...oh and they get their $100+ a week for food and travel expenses too...DO YOU?)
If people don't think that the private sector is funded by the people you are ignorant. Government is funded by peoples taxes, Walmart is funded by your money too. Only they don't care what you think and you don't get a vote. And they pay their people less than they can afford to live on while their company is in the black by billions. It's a ridiculous argument - private vs. public sector. It's the same when you boil it down.
Nobody wants to be out of work without health care. Stop hating on each other and hate on this legislature that is spending YOUR MONEY on a vote to ban something that is ALREADY illegal. Yes folks, it costs money to do that. Money we supposedly don't have. Get a grip. Get these selfish people out of office.
Cal, I don't need to be lectured on economic theory. I understand about how employers and employees both gain (theoretically) from the arrangement. What I'm cynical about is the entire premise that what's "good for the economy" is good, period. If the GDP is growing like a weed, but all that growth goes into the pockets of small minority while the vast majority see little or no improvement in their standard of living (as happened under GWB), how is that better than a GDP that grows more slowly but spreads the benefits over most or all of the population? What is the economy for anyway?
(I'm equally cynical about socialist ideology, but since there's no danger of that gaining any traction these days, you won't often hear me rant about that.)
I'm not bitter. I'm sad that our government is run by whatever faction is best able to get the most folks to swallow their ideological bullshit.
The Vikings...Just kidding move those losers to LA.
Anything that ones life and home would be put at risk:
* Minnesota Care, obviously. Those on it are the neediest of the needy. (To even qualify you have to be so under water is not fair. And worse, the aid rarely really covers anything. Doubt me? Try and apply for it....)
* Unemployment. Nuf said.
* Police
* Fire
* State's Dislocated Worker programs. If we are going to get out of a recession, you need to have employees in these programs to get jobs that even exist or stand a chance at a job if theirs no longer exists...
* Court systems, as if it was not bad enough.
* Phone banks to the Leadership so we can call and complain.....
I overheard some guy say that the 4th of July is the one day that we recognize each other as one nation, a free nation. This nirvanna experience supposedly happens in the park while watching fireworks according to him.
I know better. I live across from a park which on the 4th of July is totally segregated into little camps.
I feed trolls, elves, and fairies , especially if they are homeless or just simply hungry.
All programs are important.
(Except those that fund fireworks)
We should bill the wealthy that have extracted all revenue from the economy for any pay requirements that occur during the 'shutdown'.
Steve,
First of all, to stay on topic, I forgot about the Met Council, our non-representative ever growing example of waste. Then cut all the light rail nonsense that will be a financial black hole forever. Cut them both forever.
There was an excellent editorial in the Strib (think it was last Sat, can't find the link). It talked about the uncertainty that a small to mid size employer deals with. What will it cost to hire another employee, what with a new costly regulation every day? That's a huge reason why there is no hiring. Government has many ways to hinder growth.
Employers hire to make money and the employees make money too. Somehow you believe this is evil, but as an employee, I benefit and so do you. Unlike the public sector, private sector employment produces wealth. It funds research to provide the products that you and I consume to improve our lives. It allows us to buy what we want. It pays the taxes. Sadly, so much of what government does penalizes more of the populace than it benefits. Get out of my way and let me enjoy my life.
The notion that we should raise taxes on those evil employers so we will increase private sector employment is quite fanciful. We had 5% unemployment under Bush after suffering through 911. And no, I didn't like Bush either.
I am not sure why you call yourself a cynic. It's just the same stuff that is in the mainstream media pushes about how business is evil, those that achieve are greedy and that government is the only thing that is good and compassionate.
Perhaps you should change your moniker to Steve the Bitter.
Hmm. It seems my earlier posting, which included a reply to Raul's note, is missing. I know it was there earlier. Is this censorship a sign of right-wing bias by MPR? Or just bending over backwards to avoid the appearance of left-wing bias?
Anyway, to answer "Today's Question" (and repeat the portion of my earlier note that was ) I think that the more government services get labeled "non-essential," the better. That way, when there's a shut-down, people will realize how much they rely on the government services that they take for granted. Let the results of right-wing ideology play out, expose it to the light of day, and people will see it for the post-digestive cattle feed that it is.
Cal, I ridiculed Raul, because what he wrote was ridiculous. You want a serious comment? Here's one. (Not exactly an answer to "Today's Question," but in response to your comment.)
The thesis that raising taxes on "job creators" will hurt the economy is misleading. The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were supposed to spur the economy. It worked, sort of. As measured by GDP, the economy did indeed grow, but economists were puzzled at the results, because it turned out to be a "jobless recovery"-- something they hadn't seen before. The extension of the Bush tax cuts over Democratic objections seems to have had a similar result. Though the economy is growing, albeit slowly, the rate of job creation is much slower than the growth of the economy. Why is that? Why aren't those "job creators" using their tax breaks to create jobs? It's because "job creators" is a misnomer. The folks with money to hire workers don't care about workers. They just care about money. When the higher tax rates were in force, we effectively had a tax on the failure to create jobs, since payroll is a business expense. If we want the economy to produce more jobs, we need to go back to those higher tax rates on the hoarders who amass wealth for themselves without regard for the common good.
Not that it wasn't expected, but all the liberal views don't make the problems easy to solve.
M seems to have it nailed down, most others don't take this any more seriously than the media.
Raul was ridiculed - I don't think he was far off, but what he discussed was federal, so while off topic, ,many of these problems will affect state policy in the end.
All the vitriol for the government not producing a budget was directed at the republican legislators, who were elected to reduce spending. No one seems to blame Dayton, when he hasn't produced a budget. His only goal seems to be raising taxes on the wealthy and to keep expanding government. When asked what he would do with the extra money he proposed to collect, his answer was "I don't know".
Some government is essential. However, the amount of government spending we have in this state is far above what is necessary. A healthy private sector is more essential to me than much of what our state government does. The bigger the public sector, the more the private sector suffers, and in the end, so do I.
My criterium for essential during a shutdown is whether someone will definitely suffer bodily harm by not providing the service. Not whether bad things might happen. Not whether there might be economic harm. So, state-run hospitals, yes. State Patrol - no - there would still be County Sheriffs, City Police, etc. Unemployment insurance - no. Driver's licenses - no. Parks - no. Tax collection - no. Payments to health care providers and nursing homes - probably if the alternative is kicking patients/residents out. Road construction - no. Prisons - probably if they can't find county or city facilities to take the murderers and rapists - there would be bodily harm otherwise. Education - no. Pollution control - no. Health department - no. Business licenses - no. Rest areas - no.
How about the thousands of "non-essential" state employees who will be laid off with no pay and no insurance during the shutdown? I can guarantee pay and insurance is no more "non-essential" for these folks anymore than it is for any of the rest of us non-state employees.
Services to people who are vulnerable because of physical or mental disabilities are essential. If these persons live in state care facilities, the cost of running those facilities is essential, including paying the state employees who run them. If the state has a contract to pay for their care in a private or non-profit facility. the state needs to continue paying those contractors. If the state is paying personal care attendants to keep these people in their own homes, whether the attendants are from private firms, non-profit organizations, or the persons' own families, the state needs to continue paying those contracts.
Essential- State Patrol, EMTs if funded by the state, care facilities thar are purely state funded and the zoo. Nothing else- no salaries or per diems for legislators. I don't think they should be paid for all the "negotiations" happening now or during a Special Session. Would the private sector pay for unfinished work beyond the defined time line?
An absolute NO for state parks and rest stops!! The more that is shut down, the more the general public will realize that state government is more vital than they thought. The biggest mistake with the last partial shutdown was allowing the state parks to stay open. For some Minnesotans, recreating at a state park over the July 4th w/end was more important that those services the poor and disabled need to live in the community. .
Raul sounds like he's repeating talking points because that's what he IS doing. Nothing he said is relevant to the question presented. It has nothing to do with MN's budget problem. He tried to derail a legitimate, rational conversation by posting nonsense from a propaganda machine. Now that his disinformation has been exposed for the factually incorrect mess that it is, let's ignore the troll and get back to the real discussion at hand: what state government services do you consider essential?
This is too easy!!
The state services essential are those within districts with DFL representation!! Those with GOP representation are not.
Problem solved.
You're welcome.
Raul, I think you need to attach context to your statistics; otherwise it just sounds like Tea Party talking points.
In response to your 1st paragraph, TARP was announced in October 2008 - prior to Obama's election. http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/tarpinfo.htm
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion you did in Paragraph 2.
Paragraph 3: I'm not sure where you got your information that connects US dollars to oil drilling permits in Brazil. It does seem, however, that you're forgetting to factor in the repercussions to drilling permits that resulted from the Deepwater Horizon debacle. Permitting for Gulf drilling is only now resuming.
The context of your 4th paragraph appears to ignore the Bush administration's 8 years of decision-making on the deficit - which relied on trickle-down economics and unsustainable credit risks to create economic progress.
I don't really understand what you're driving at in your 5th paragraph - it just sounds like sound bite reiteration to me.
In the end, it needs to be remembered that the causes for our mess are numerous, and no one or two things are going to get us out of it. And blaming everything on spending is only a good idea when you ignore what the alternatives are. Here, the alternatives include failing to provide our vets with health care, fix roads, helping people search for work, keeping roofs over people's heads and halfway nutritious food in their stomachs, getting ready for winter storms (it may be 90+ today, but we still need to do that), keeping our food supply safe... I could go on and on.
I kind of agree with Ryan in a way: folks don't know what they've got until it's gone. And it's pretty sad for me to say that, as I am a State employee with kids who's currently looking for bargains on mac n' cheese and peanut butter. For the sake of my mortgage payment, I sure hope it doesn't come to that. But, well, we state employees don't contribute much to the economy or tax base (yes, we also pay taxes!).
So, as for what should be deemed "essential": well, after a month or so, most government jobs will seem pretty gosh-darned essential.
What defines essential? if you are a trucker - your're perspective is skewed - you want roads and traffic alerts. If you are a vacationland hotel owner - you're perspective is skewed - you parks and boat ramps and other ammentiies open. if you are a farmer - well you got your dime. If you are a small town - with a college as the big employer - you may want education funded. ditto for a student trying to finish a degree with summer programs. ..... Is "consensus" the promise that the most recently powerful political movement gets to totally revamp the governmental goals of a society? Seems like were in the ding-dong phase of democracy. Every back and forth toll of the bell changes the message. Time to ask .. for whom does the bell toll?
The DNR employee who carefully inspected my boat for millfoil before I backed it into the millfoil capital of the world (Lake Minnetonka) is definitely not essential!
States will have to reorganize just as our Fed needs to do. Take a look at the 3 TARP money and how it was wastefully spent for a select few groups. Chrysler and GM were a loss to tax payers while preserving union pensions that were mismanaged to begin with.
If Obama-nomics is not corrected, nothing will matter in a year or so..the economy will be back to 1929.
Obama allocated billions in cheap loans to Bazil so they can_drill for oil while stifling American drilling permits. Last week he promised billions to Eqypt an Libya....forgiving their debts to us. Unemployment is still well above 9% across the land, Most of Detroit is a welfare state wasteland.....essential money was not spent to correct our economic problems but rather, moves were made again to devalue the US dollar. Ten years ago to today, our dollar is now down 24.9%
Back in a November 14, 2009 NYT editorial, titled “The Coming Debt Panic,” the Post editorial board noticed that U.S. debt had soared under one year of Obamanomics from 41% of the gross domestic product to a whopping
53%.
Excess spending of Obamanomics with fears of Cap and Trade fiasco along with deterrents to growing our manufacturing base_ that is the cause, not a lack of revenue. MN needs to move away from the liberal idiotic economics mindset_ history shows it has made things worse, not improved.
The GOP budget is a cut. Any rational mathematician who can do basic math knows this. It is not an increase. When you add the Federal money of 1.8 billion that was accepted and spent and the 1.9 billion k-12 shift into the next biennium the GOP numbers work only as a tenet of their ideology. The state shut down will be a disaster for this state. The weakest and poorest will be hurt the most. Keep health and welfare, transportation, and law enforcement open.
I think the most essential government service right now would be the individuals assigned to go about smacking legislators upside the head all day every day until those bratty children straighten up and get their work done. Oh, and the ones who stop sending them paychecks until the budget's passed. Those would be most essential too. Unfortunately neither exists, but I'm willing to sign up for either task, particularly the first one.
I'm a MAPE member and I did not receive an email linking to this survey. I happened to stumble across it because MPR posted a link on Twitter.
People often point to fire, police, parks, etc. partly because those are the most often recited items. But state government goes much further than that. For example, libraries (especially higher education ones) depend on state government funds. When there is no budget, how will libraries get printed materials to students that need them for their papers or dissertations? How will libraries pay the vendors that supply access to material in electronic databases? Beyond just the library, how will the entire college or university pay their professors, staff, and energy bills? What will happen to research projects that are not complete? Much of the research going on in colleges and universities fuels the business side of our economy.
If there is no state government and you want to start a business, who is going to help you? The agencies that assist you and certify your businesses will be closed. Same goes if you already have a business and want assistance expanding.
If you're unemployed and can't afford an internet connection, where are you going to go to look for a job? The two most common places this demographic turns to are the library and state run WorkForce Centers (WFCs). The WFCs will be shuttered if government is shut down and public libraries are suffering greatly from slashed budgets and an increased run on services/computers. That increase will only get greater if WFCs are closed. Good luck with your search...
A link to this survey was recently sent out to MAPE (state union) members. So comments may be heavily skewed towards the "everything is essential" side.
Personally, I see transportation and law enforcement as essential. Beyond that...
The GOP budget is an increase, not "all cuts" as our union head would have us believe and the Governor needs to sign what would be the largest budget in state history and avoid a shutdown.
@CF
I'm pretty certain you missed the sarcasm from bsimon.
--
I support a shutdown because it's going to be a tremendous waste of money and it's going to prove to the people of MN just what they take for granted that is state-owned or state-run.
I want people to get mad. I want them to wake up.
Let the whiny GOP get their way and prove that their posturing is hurtful and doesn't care about the people, just the money.
MNDOT, Police, Fire and infrastructure support (Water, Sewage, ...). Outside of that everything else is essentially fluff. It may be fluff that we all enjoy (State Parks and such), but it's still fluff.
@bsimon
If you don't want a speeding ticket then don't speed. Wow, a solution is already provided for you, and it's under your control. How cool is that?
@bsimon
Wasn't the State Police essential when they arrested the drunk driver who could have crashed into your car and possibly killed you or your kids?
As much as I detest government schrools and even if your kids are still pre-school, wasn't a government schrool essential when you went?
Apparently that bike trail the state built is essential enough for you to use it, right? And even though MinnDOT is not essential, as you say, they still built and maintain the roads you drive on and plow the snow in the winter.
I hope that the unemployment offices are considered essential. If not thousands of Minnesotans who are struggling to survive as we come out of this recession will be in even worse shape than they are now.
Let me think. It's not essential, to me, that I receive speeding tickets, so the state patrol is nonessential. My kids aren't in school yet, so the schools are nonessential. I can get into Fort Snelling on the bike trail, even if they 'close' the front gate, so parks are nonessential. I can get to work on city & county roads, so MNDOT is nonessential.
It's starting to look like the whole darn state government is nonessential. I say shut 'er down & revert to being a Territory. Maybe we can get the Dakotas to go in on it with us and be the new old frontier.
None.
We do not need a nanny state.
Sink or swim.... Darwin.
∑
DTOM
Are driver license examinations essential? They are if you are 16 or in need of a truck license for employment. Are parks essential? They are if you have a camping trip planned. The entire legislature looks terrible in this mess. Folks, it's a revenue problem. Why? If you lose your job the mortgage, car and household expenses don't go away. Over the past 8 years the cuts have been made. Sure, there are still some cuts to be made, but primarily it is a revenue problem.
Of course there are the big three police, fire and schools. But what the government is really set up to do is govern and if the legislature is unwilling to compromise (aka. govern) their checks should be the first to be stopped. Stop paying their daily expenses and their paychecks as soon as the session ends then maybe they'd wouldn't grandstand unpopular policies and get back to work.
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