Debate: Pressuring the moderator

Posted at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2008 by Bob Collins (10 Comments)
Filed under: Politics

Here's something you don't see every day: A full-page ad in the New York Times challenging the moderator of tonight's presidential debate to ask a question from the special-interest group that bought the ad.

"How do you cut income taxes for people who don't owe them?" it offers to CBS News' Bob Schieffer.

The group, IncomeTaxFacts.org, is a front for somebody, but I haven't yet figured out exactly who. Some of the threads point back to the Heritage Foundation.

The ad virtually guarantees the question won't be asked.

Tonight's presidential debate begins at 8 p.m. (CT). I hope you'll join me here for the live-blogging and online discussion.

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Comments (10)

I wish I had the numbers at my disposal to argue with incometaxfacts.org's website.
"Five percent of Americans are already paying 60% of all federal income taxes. How much more would be fair?" Just assuming all of their numbers are correct, a fair question would be how much does the top 5% make of the total income?
"Currently, 32% of Americans pay no federal income tax. Many actually receive significant payments from the federal government." What is the income level of those 32%? How much is 'significant' and by whose definition?
Bob, I think I am virtually guaranteed not to get an answer from incometaxfacts.org.

Posted by Scott | October 15, 2008 9:18 AM

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NEVER trust a one-page Web site.

Posted by Bob Collins | October 15, 2008 9:32 AM

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Sounds like this ad calls for changes in tax laws.
According to Forbes Magazine, more than 50 of the largest corporations pay no taxes, and many get "price supports"--i.e., "coporate welfare" that comes directly from taxes paid by wage-earners. With their obscene profits, as in the oil industry, they can front bogus organizations and post commercial advertisements to defraud the public whom they believe to be both uninformed and gullible.

Do let Mr. Bob Schieffer open this can of worms, and expose these worms to light. Corporations that move their operations off-shore to avoid taxes should face import tariffs that exceed the taxes proportionate to the the loss of both jobs and wage-earners income tax.

Posted by Professor Philip Dow, Napa CA | October 15, 2008 10:10 AM

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Some of this is echoed above, but...

Assuming you can take the 32% stat at face value, the group brings up a great point, the point being this:
If 32% of individuals in our country don't earn enough to pay taxes, *what is wrong with income distribution in the United States?*

Let's see Schieffer ask that one...

Posted by CaliGuy | October 15, 2008 1:06 PM

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I'm also curious about the last statement, "Under Sen. Obama's tax plan, 63 million Americans would pay no taxes, yet most of them would receive a "refund" payment from the IRS each year." I've never been in the lowest bracket, but don't they still have taxes withheld and that is what is refunded?

Posted by Robin | October 15, 2008 2:21 PM

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Glad you're on this Bob - I saw it on NYTimes.com as well, on a business page (I doubt they chipped that in for buying the 1 page spread) - then checked their page (that was short) then tossed it into google.
As of 2:20pm, you seem to be the only one on the web posting it, another curiosity. You're #2 under their site.

I hope the ad comes up in some form tonight. I agree with the other posters, tons of holes in their short argument and I'm curious if it somehow gains traction.

Posted by Joe Bortscheller - MPLS | October 15, 2008 2:28 PM

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"How do you cut income taxes for people who don't owe them?"


You don't. But you can cut payroll taxes for people who don't pay income taxes.

Posted by bsimon | October 15, 2008 2:51 PM

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1. NYT also has this ad online. At this time this blog is still #2 google hit.
2. Agree w/ most of above but refunds are real: people owing no income tax can still get certain credits, Obama proposing more of them, which result in net payments out. Recent Wall Street Journal screed proposed calling this "spending" rather than a "tax cut."
3. "how much does the top 5% make of the total income?" yes, the appropriate comparison would be the top 5% ratio: percent of total taxes / percent of total income. I'd like to know that number.
4. "If 32% of individuals in our country don't earn enough to pay taxes, *what is wrong with income distribution in the United States?*" Be careful, this isn't a measure of income distribution: you could lower that 32% not by raising incomes but by lowering the income threshold where one DOES pay taxes -- e.g. a so-called "flat tax" would do this. The bottom third paying no income taxes is actually rather progressive, at least on its face (i.e. ignoring payroll taxes, etc.).

Posted by S.D. | October 15, 2008 5:16 PM

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Scott - This is where it is coming from!

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in07tr.xls

Posted by Jackie | October 15, 2008 8:30 PM

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I've been told a number of times this past weekend that many Americans don't have to pay taxes. Moreover I was told that those who don't have to pay taxes do not practice the virtue of personal responsibility and look for handouts from the government. I explained that everyone pays taxes whether it be sales taxes, social security, Medicare, excise taxes, etc. and, for the poor, many of these taxes are regressive.

I didn't mention that the top 300,000 income earners earn about as much combined income as the bottom 150 million income earners in America. That's why we are always being told that the rich pay so much of the taxes and should get all the benefits of tax reduction. It is never mentioned that the rich get most of the benefits of government. If that weren't so why are they always lobbying the government. The conservatives tell us that government is the enemy because it helps the poor and shiftless, when in reality conservatives depend upon government to make laws that make their way of life possible.

I was also told by a friend that he pays combined taxes at an over 50 % rate when in actuality he pays most of his taxes on taxable income not on his total income. ... A very high government official we all know paid 12 1/2 % on his total income. A much talked about woman and her husband paid 17 1/2 % on their total income. . Someone said recently that paying taxes is not patriotic. I assume that getting the benefits of government without paying your fair share is patriotic!!!!!! Let someone else pay your taxes if you can get away with it. But then again how can you sock it to the poor to pay those taxes you don’t want to pay, when you just told us that 32 million people pay zero taxes. Ain’t that a shame!

Posted by Owen Reynolds | October 16, 2008 3:13 PM

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