Posted at 1:45 AM on June 27, 2008
by Bob Collins
(36 Comments)

This morning, I'll be in the MPR studio with Kerri Miller during the first hour of Midmorning, live-blogging as she examines the nature of citizenship, national identity, and what it means to be an American.
Here guests are Stanley Renshon,professor of political science at the City University of New York and a certified psychoanalyst. He's the author of 13 books, including "The 50% American: Immigration and National Identity in an Age of Terrorism," and William Hing, professor of law at the University of California-Davis School of Law. He is the author of "Deporting Our Souls: Values, Morality, and Immigration Policy" and "Defining America Through Immigration Policy."
This all stems from Kerri's interview last month with Howard Fineman on his book, The Thirteen American Arguments (this was rebroadcast last week).
These are some of the particular questions:
Feel free to offer your commentary in the section below, and/or ask your questions. I'll pick the best ones -- as time allows, of course -- and we'll make you part of the show.
Midmorning live-blog
9:10 Fineman says "we are different.": How is that different from other countries and how they were founded. Renshon says it's not all the difference that matters. We made the decision early on on how to handle immigration. We took the position if people would adhere to the U.S. creed, they'd be acceptable candidates. But it's a fairly common sense to say that's all there is to becoming an American. There are ways you can identify s an American but it's a common mistake to believe democracy is all there is to it.
Renshon says Fineman makes the mistake on this point.
9:14 Q: Have values we use to define American character changed?
A: Renshon: There's a good line of continuity because things like liberty, justice, and democracy are large terms. It's easy to have changes within large categories and change the category to a large degree.
9:17 Hing talking about the perception immigrants have before they come to America.
Good observation in comments:
I was in Greece a few weeks ago and when I came home, it was obvious to me that American's feel they are entitled to many material goods in their lives. We are entitled to a car, a house, flat screen tv, even a pet. The majority of people in Greece don't have cars, they live in a small apartment, or with their parents in the family home, they go out to the local tavern to watch a football game, and why would they keep an animal for companionship if they can't farm it, or eat it! Perhaps it's our consumerism and materialistic culture, but American's think they deserve certain items in life and they aspire to attain them.
Do you agree? And do you think immigrants pick up this culture? And if so, do they pick it up when they get here? Or did they have it before?
9:22 Renshon says there's a difference between "deserve" and "expect." America is a dynamic country economically, he says. Over time, we had lower expectations earlier in our history and as our ability to produce, those experiences (expectations?) go up.
9:25 Caller interested in how we talk about being an American. Fineman saying "we're not here because of a geographic accident," she says, negates all the people who were here before the Europeans came.
9:26 Via Twitter (I'm at @bcollinsmn) @ten7 says "I am a 1st gen immigrant to the USA. I consider myself American, and proudly so. Can't wait to vote in Nov!
9:30 Caller: Who is this "we"? Renshon reacts to Hing on immigration policy history here. "You can look at what we did in the past and beat it over the head, or you can see how it developed." Says the promise of America is it tries to live up with its ideals." He says "the we" is all of us over time.
Hing and Renshon get into it pretty good over whether we're more exclusionary now than we (there's that word!) were before.
9:34 I just messed up jbnimble's "name." Sorry jbnimble. One comment of his/hers is worth chewing on, though:
This whole discussion of national identity reminds me of Mark Twain: "Loyalty to the country always; loyalty to the government when it deserves it."
It does seem that politicians -- and a lot of others in the public arena -- confuse the country with the government.
--- News break --
9:40 Caller: A Hmong American says it's the 30th anniversary of his family coming here. Says Americans think of Americans as European extract. He serves in the military and says when he's not in uniform, Americans think he's "an alien." "I think we still have quite a ways to go before the world sees non-white Americans as Americans.
Hing agrees. "If you ask Americans to draw a picture of an American, most of them will draw a picture of a white person." He talks about a protest outside a mosque in Chicago with people telling people inside to "go home."
Renshon says he's concerned when people relay individual stories. He cites Pew survey on Hispanics. He says the survey showed discrimination of HIspanics is often at the hands of other Hispanics.
(Renshon and Hing clearly disagree on things. "May I finish my sentence" is always the first clue.)
9:48 Just read "Joel's" definition of an American (free speech and freedom to express). Renshon, given the opportunity to react, goes back to an earlier caller, instead. Shoot.
9:54 Renshon says some people think going into Iraq was foolish, some think it was a matter of national security. "Which represents democracy?" he asks.
9:58 "Jeff" -- in comments -- leaves us (on the air) with an opportunity for something to do during the coming holiday (or any other time)
Given the crrent anti-immigrant tide, whenever I meet an immigrant, I make a point of saying "Welcome."
Many are surprised and pleased by my statement and then often tell short stories about how they enjoy being here.
Keep the conversation going online! Midmorning is the show that never ends!
Posted at 1:20 PM on June 27, 2008
by Bob Collins
(9 Comments)
Filed under: Icons, Surveys and trivia

Isn't that a gorgeous picture? Teresa Boardman of the St. Paul Real Estate blog took it (used by permission). As I mentioned the other day, Teresa is a supporter of the notion of preserving the smokestack at Xcel's High Bridge plant in St. Paul, the one they're going to blow up on Saturday morning.
"It's just a smokestack," someone said in the comments section to the above post. True, enough. To appreciate the High Bridge smokestack, you have to think of it as representing something other than what it was -- the dumping ground for pollution from a coal-burning power plant.
Smokestacks, though, represent industrialization, which used to be considered a good thing.
Cleveland, when it built Jacob's Field (I refuse to call it Progressive Field), understood that by designing the light towers to portray smokestacks.

The smokestacks in Cleveland fouled the air in a city where they still joke about the time the river caught on fire, and yet they symbolized something greater.
That, I presume, is what Teresa sees in the smokestack, which is in its final hours as one of the dominating features of the St. Paul skyline.
Which brings us to.... the St. Paul skyline.
A skyline should make a statement about the city to all those who are about to enter it. Absent a symbol of the city's past (along with a demolished brewery from some years ago), what statement will the St. Paul skyline make now?
On the way in from the eastern front today, I noticed the Capitol is now partly obscured from sections of I-94, by the addition to Regions Hospital. We have a bank building with the big red "1" still dominating the skyline. St. Paul: A good place to get sick and cash a check.
There is the Cathedral of St. Paul, of course. It's a gorgeous building, to be sure. But it somehow stands apart from the downtown skyline, as if it's in this city, but not of this city.
Tomorrow, by the way, News Cut will be accepting your pictures of the demolition of the smokestack. We'll be providing video from this end. Use this form to send me your favorite shot. And if you want to provide some prose about the stack, I'll be happy to include that, too.
Update Reader Sean Garrick has sent a photo he took Wednesday evening.

Posted at 1:05 PM on June 27, 2008
by Bob Collins
(4 Comments)
Filed under: Sports
A news conference with Kevin McHale was held in Minneapolis this afternoon. He introduced Kevin Love, who was traded to the Timberwolves in a draft-day trade involving the Wolves' #3 pick - O.J. Mayo.
1:04 - Timberwolves boss Kevin McHale says "we were all excited." Who's this all you're talking about?
1:06 - "We were fully prepared to keep OJ. When you draft a guy and actually have him, teams call. There's probably more interest in the third pick before we picked it. "
1:09 - McHale said the trade started with a conversation between team owner Glenn Taylor and the Memphis owner.
Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press: "Timberwolves screw it up again with trade"
1:12 - As expected, the Twin Cities sports media appear to be asking pretty tame questions. Bloggers, on the other hand, have a much better handle on the sentiment of fans. Take Phil Mackey of KFAN, for example:
But after so many failed moves, this is a case of guilty until proven innocent.
Wolves front office: Prove to the fan base that you are indeed capable of stringing together a few fantastic moves. Prove to the fan base that you know what you are doing. Prove to the fan base that you can rebuild this team.
1:16 p.m. Meanwhile, back when Kevin Love was a Memphis Grizzly for a few hours, we he wasn't impressing anyone in Tennessee, according to Geoff Calkins of the Memphis Commercial Appeal newspaper:
So the Grizzlies did the only thing they could have done. And it was impossibly frustrating.
Love didn't help when my colleague, Ron Tillery, told Love that Iavaroni compared Conley to a Ferrari at last year's draft night. So, what sort of car would Love compare himself to?
"A Prius," he said.
A Prius?
"It's reliable, you're getting good gas mileage and you don't have to pay too much for it," Love said.
Great quote, eh? But who gets excited about a Prius?
1:19 p.m. McHale still talking about draft night strategy. No questions about fan reaction.
1:21 p.m. Timberwolves exec answers -- without being asked -- questions about whether he lied when he was talking up O.J. Mayo after the Timberwolves selected him. Critics say execs lied to media knowing they were going to trade Mayo. Execs say they didn't know they'd trade him.
1:23 p.m. Star Tribune's Michael Rand likes the deal, but...
Now, the only quibble we have: the way it went down. It's tough to sell the public on a player like Mayo and then pull him back in the dead of night. Is there a good reason this deal couldn't have been arranged and ready to go the minute David Stern stepped to the podium? We don't think so. As we watched the draft with some RandBall regulars (good time had by all), we started trying to convince ourselves that Mayo could be a good fit. Local fans who wanted Mayo were ecstatic, only to be disappointed later. The timing and handling was bad; the end result, though, will be the best thing to happen to this franchise in a long time. And we're not just saying that because we kind of predicted it.
1:28 p.m. - McHale takes a shot at other players in the draft (O.J. Mayo refused to come to Minnesota to work out for the Timberwolves before the draft), saying Love agreed to work out against players while other players would only do basketball moves against a chair or cones. "If you can't beat a chair, you've got problems," said McHale.
The Rake's Britt Robson breaks down the deal and the draft. He says he hated some move the Timberwolves made yesterday, but likes the trade:
First of all, the question isn't whether the Timberwolves helped themselves last night--compare the pre-draft and post-draft rosters and try to tell me they didn't significantly upgrade--but whether they helped themselves as much as they could. My answer is no, they didn't, but that's because they idiotically punted the 34th pick for no discernible reason other than to be pennywise, and we all know the second half of that course of action.
1:33 - McHale says the Timberwolves "are going to have a lot of money to play with" in the market for free agents. Doesn't say how much.
1:37 - End of news conference. I'm still wondering if any Timberwolves season ticket holders are calling the Wolves' offices today. Any T'Wolves ticketholders here?
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