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« Mary Lucia fans - check this out! | Steve Seel joins the team » What should our first song be?January 04, 2005 Thanks to Christopher who posted a question about our first song. He suggested Elvis Costello's "Radio Radio." We would like to hear from all of you blog readers about your first song ideas. I'm not saying we don't have any ideas of our own, but we want to hear yours! If your song isn't picked for the very first one, maybe we can play it later on the first day. So, what do you think? Posted by Sarah Lutman at 04:36 PM
| Comments (115)
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Yeah, that seems the clear choice. Local, appropriate, perfect. (Only problem is that it might result in a few cases of cardiac arrest in those WCAL listeners who happened to be present at the moment ...) Posted by: gwent at January 4, 2005 05:04 PMI'm with Chris, it's totally got to be Left of the Dial. Posted by: Jodi at January 4, 2005 05:24 PMI'm blanking on the name right now, but it's by Patsy Cline. Ask Thorn -- he'd know. Posted by: Wendy at January 4, 2005 06:08 PM"Radio Free Europe" - R.E.M. Posted by: Gary at January 4, 2005 06:24 PMGotta be Left of the Dial. Posted by: Tim at January 4, 2005 06:34 PMHow about "Turn it On" by Flaming Lips? The folky, "ho-down" sounding version preferably. Looking forward to the launch. Are we going to be tipped off as to when to listen? Posted by: Radney Knight at January 4, 2005 06:36 PMI think the consensus is 'Left Of The Dial.' It fits all the basic requirements. Local band? Check. Title that applies? Check. When the full band comes in after the solo guitar riff, it sounds like something powerful and great is starting up. Certainly that can apply to the station as well. Posted by: Nathan Lind at January 4, 2005 06:41 PMHas to be Left Of The Dial. There's not a more perfect suggestion for this type of radio station, in this town. Well frankly I don't think you could go wrong with a Replacements song in any town, but you get what I mean. Posted by: kelly at January 4, 2005 07:09 PMI think that "Radio, Radio" is a great choice for a first song. Or how about Queen's "Radio Ga Ga"? You rarely hear that on the radio nowadays. Left Of The Dial all the way. Local band, appropriate title, great song. Posted by: Andrew at January 4, 2005 07:48 PMThe World Can Wait, Over the Rhine. Opening track to _Films for Radio_. Sure, they're a Cincy band, but the slow unreeling of the drums towards the piano always sounds like the start of something good. Makes for a wonderful song to leave for home from work, or vice versa. So, nu, when do we get to hear this hypothetical song? Any ideas yet? Posted by: Drew J at January 4, 2005 08:08 PMI would love to come up with 6 better ideas, but there ain't any! "Left of the Dial" it is. Posted by: Keith at January 4, 2005 08:18 PMI think the song Welcome to the Monkey House by Dandy Warhols, its only like a Minute long and can break into Left of the Dial but with Lyrics like also off the same album is the song with a chorus that sings just some additional thoughts. Posted by: bilzabub at January 4, 2005 09:06 PMSome songs to consider: "Radio Song" by REM from Out Of Time, "Left Of Center" by Suzanne Vega & the aforementioned "Radio, Radio" "Radio Free Europe" & "Radio Ga-Ga" but "Left Of The Dial" seems like the obvious choice; maybe the other songs I listed can also be played on the first day. When is the 1st day gonna be? Has that been decided yet? Please give us some notice so we can all tune in. Thanks to you all for everything you've done, are doing & will continue to do to bring great radio back to the Twin Cities! Posted by: Tom at January 4, 2005 11:20 PMI was absolutely thinking of this new station when I was listening to 'Tim' and "Left of the Dial" came on. I was thinking of suggesting this very thread. It seems that there are a few great minds out there. Posted by: erik at January 5, 2005 01:11 AMHow about "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio" by Joni Mitchell. Posted by: Ken Mills at January 5, 2005 08:35 AMLeft of the Dial is the best choice, but I think "Late Greats" by Wilco would also be a good choice. Posted by: Jeff at January 5, 2005 08:37 AMopening set: left of the dial - mats "... and in local news..." Posted by: scooterboy at January 5, 2005 08:57 AMI stand corrected, Jeff. Wilco's "Late greats" is a GREAT idea! And a great song. Posted by: Keith at January 5, 2005 09:53 AM'Left Of The Dial' is great. I would also suggest 'Radio King' by Golden Smog Posted by: wolfdog at January 5, 2005 10:08 AManother idea! do you remember rock & roll radio? - ramones (hi wolfie) Posted by: scooterboy at January 5, 2005 10:14 AMI totally concur--"Left of the Dial" is the way to go. Posted by: Geof at January 5, 2005 10:57 AM"Radio,Radio", "Left of the Dial" , "Late Greats" are all great suggestions for starters. I recall that Rev 105 started their airplay with Ramone's "Rock'n Roll Radio" way back when. How about Lou Reed's "Rock N Roll"? The lyrics are about being blown away by tuning into a rock radio station for the first time. Posted by: Janis at January 5, 2005 11:15 AM"Left of the Dial" is really the only choice, but I do also like Flaming Lips "Turn it On". Posted by: Ira at January 5, 2005 11:37 AMSoviettes -- The Land of Clear Blue Radio Posted by: Brian Dellert at January 5, 2005 12:07 PMInstead of starting out with a song that is decades old, I think you should kick off the station with a forward look -- a song that is as new as possible. I would suspect that you receive CDs in the mail every day. You should start your first broadcast with a song that you receive in the most recent batch of mail. Starting with something that is totally new sets the pace. There will be a lot of people who will want to hear the "left-of-the-dial" music they heard in high school, but I think you should start out with the statement that the station is going to push things forward. Afterward you can play music that displays your depth and knowledge, but start things off by looking forward. "Captial Radio" by The Clash. You can never go wrong starting out with The Clash. "Flip Your Wig" by Husker Du--for any WCAL listeners who might be hanging around. "Holy Diver" by Dio. Just, y'know, because Dio rocks. The symbolism represented by the list of radio-themed songs is compelling. But I wholeheartedly agree with Chris' suggestion of starting with the best song found in your most recent delivery of new music that fits the frame of the format. Look forward, not back! Posted by: Another Chris at January 5, 2005 12:39 PM"Left of the Dial" makes about as much sense as you can have. As many other posts have stated, it feels in all of the requirements ... plus it is just so darn good! Yeah? When will that prophetic song be played? Posted by: Tyma at January 5, 2005 01:16 PMIt has got to be "Left of the Dial"!!! That song just strikes a chord and some of us even remember hearing it in a bar - not high school. hehehhe. I think it represents the history of the indie music scene in this town and the reason why something like this radio station can work here. So I appreciate the idea of looking to the future with something new, but first a nod the past would be cooler. Also, I just gotta say HOORAY and I Can't wait for the first song (what ever it ends up being) and the second and the third too actually. You should definitely play multiple songs, you were planning to do that, right? Cheers and thanks for all the hard work to make this all happen. We are lucky to live here. Posted by: Wendy: The Reidster at January 5, 2005 01:42 PMYou know, with all this chatter on Music Old and New (good chatter, mind you), I find myself wondering how in the world Jim Ed Poole and Dale C are going to fit into this sort of line-up. I love the guys; their sports wrap-ups are exactly the right line between apathetic and vaguely interested, but I've never gotten the sense that they're into local artists that own instruments that can be occasionally turned to eleven. Posted by: Drew J at January 5, 2005 01:51 PMTHE song has to be "On The Air" by Peter Gabriel. Don't forget to play some new Marillion from the For sentimental reasons, Patsy Cline's "Crazy." Though "Left of the Dial" seems to be the logical and best choice. Or maybe, the Ramones "Rock n' Roll Radio." Hmmm ... now I'm not so sure. I just popped in my copy of Tim, and I rememberd that "Left of the Dial" was never my favorite Mats SONG. Maybe "Can't Hardly Wait." Also, I like Chris' comment up there that "Instead of starting out with a song that is decades old, I think you should kick off the station with a forward look." Posted by: gwent at January 5, 2005 05:11 PMlightbulb! maybe the song "Let's Push Things Forward" by the Streets.....it's about making music that is inovative (the type of stuff this new station will be playing), its not BRAND NEW, but its alot newer than all of the other suggestions we've come up with so far another contender for song to be played later on the 1st day: "Oh No, The Radio" by Owsley Posted by: Tom at January 5, 2005 06:34 PM"I Hate My Friggin I.S.P." -Rundgren "Oh No, The Radio" by Owsley could work as a newer song (even though it's from 1999). The lyrics alone tell the tale of overplayed music. That, and the only reason I suggested "Radio, Radio" by Elvis Costello was not because of how old the song was, but by its lyrics -- "They're saying things that I can hardly believe, they really think we're getting out of control." The whole song is significant as to how we are as a society, and how everything has to be so instant and now. Posted by: Christopher at January 5, 2005 10:04 PMKasey Chambers "Cry Like A Baby" from her 2000 album, 'The Captain' seems fitting to add into the first day. "Well I'm not much like my generation, Their music only hurts my ears." Posted by: Christopher at January 5, 2005 10:13 PMThe first music played should clearly be the theme music from "Star Trek". Unfortunately, this time Capt. Kirk was not on the scene to foil the Klingon Empire in its evil mission to destroy WCAL. Posted by: Hank at January 6, 2005 12:14 AM"How Soon is Now?" by the Smiths...It's about time this kind of radio format came to the masses...For that matter, anything from Depeche Modes' (Music for the Masses) album could be the second selection... Posted by: Evan at January 6, 2005 01:02 AMI second the "Left of the Dial" suggestion. Let me also say how unbelievably happy I am that you are bringing a music station that respects the listener and cares about music. When I moved here from Chicago, I was sad to leave behind WXRT, to whom family has worked for, and that blended a joy for music, entertainment and news (albeit too tame for my tastes). Yet, that sadness was alleviated by the joy that was REV 105. Between REV 105 and MPR, I thought I had found radio bliss -- too soon departed Thanks for bringing hope back to radio. Mary Lucia, Thorn, etc. are all great choices. I'm upping my NPR membership $$$. Posted by: Michael Z at January 6, 2005 02:31 AMI'd endorse some MARILLION!.."Angelina" WOULD BE PERFECT of their 2004 album "Marbles." Also, even though it's received commercial airplay, "The Spirit of Radio" by Rush would be a good opener. Kyle Posted by: Kyle at January 6, 2005 07:35 AMA local artist supergroup, live, in studio. Posted by: Gazzer at January 6, 2005 11:10 AMI'd really love to hear Wilco's "Late Greats." For those of you who haven't heard the song. Its about this mythical "Greatest lost track of all time," and "You can't hear it on the radio" cm Posted by: cm at January 6, 2005 12:01 PMA live artist for the first day? Like Soul Asylum, The Jayhawks, or Martin Zeller? Depending if they can do said date. Posted by: Christopher at January 6, 2005 01:30 PMDefinitely "Left of the Dial," I don't understand how you could even consider anything else. Posted by: Nate at January 6, 2005 01:31 PMAny one of these (perhaps it warrants a whole opening segment, with a mix of old and new): "Mexican Radio" - Wall of Voodoo My preference would be to hear something out there and contrary to conventional wisdom, like Young Marble Giants' "Radio Silents" or Pram's excellent "Radio Freak in a Storm."
I agree, "left of the dial" was the also the first song that popped in to to my head. A lyric came to mind from a less alternative sounding band. "..............plays the song that's so elusive that the magic music makes your morning mood." The song is "Spirit of the Radio" by Rush. Well, Left of the Dial seems to be the consensus, and I think it's a great idea. But if that doesn't work for some reason, how about Radio Cure by Wilco? Posted by: David at January 7, 2005 08:35 AMAnybody remember the cable-only radio station, KABL? Their first song was "I'm in Trouble" by the 'mats. Kind of pessimistic, yet tongue in cheek. 'Course, look what happened to KABL! I have to vote for "Left of the Dial" also. Posted by: Mary at January 7, 2005 11:22 AMWhat was the last song on REV105? Not a bad idea to start up where it left off. Posted by: Matthew Brenengen at January 7, 2005 03:13 PMMats rule, left of the dial should be the first song no doubt about it. Let's get this going I'm so sick of Zone 105 and Cities 97' I could puke. Posted by: Ryan at January 7, 2005 04:46 PMwhile it's probably a bit heavy for KCMP, and it's future listeners, Liberation Frequency by Refused would be great: It's coming through the air We want the airwaves back We want the airwaves back What frequency are you getting? We want the airwaves back We wanted everything What frequency are you getting? What frequency are you getting? We want the airwaves back What frequency are you getting? What frequency are you getting? Let's not forget "Power to the People" by Patti Smith. Posted by: beth at January 8, 2005 08:30 AMGiven Dale Connely's angst about not knowing what is "hip" these days (I sympathize), I have my own modest suggestion. i hope you mean "People Have The Power", by Patti Smith Posted by: jeff at January 8, 2005 05:42 PM"The First Single" by The Format - a great, little known twentysomething pop rock duo. It's only fitting. Posted by: Eric at January 8, 2005 07:37 PMOOPS! That's what I meant. "People Have the Power"!! Need more coffee. Posted by: beth at January 9, 2005 07:51 AMLots of good suggestions. One more to add: "I Want to Sing That Rock and Roll" by Gillian Welch (and David Rollins) from "Time (The Revelator)". Just a beautiful song recorded live. Posted by: Brian at January 9, 2005 02:53 PMI can't think of a better first song than: "One More Song the Radio Won't Like" by Kathleen Edwards. Posted by: Jon at January 10, 2005 06:51 AM"Left of the Dial"--so cliche. Wouldn't it be truly anti-format and brilliant to kick things off with a beautiful, subtle Shostakovich arrangement. You could follow it with a rousing Mahler symphony to really get the party started! Think outside the box, people! Kyle Posted by: Kyle at January 10, 2005 09:25 AM"Like a Rolling Stone" as done by Articolo 3 off the "Masked and Anonymous" soundtrack. This would give a nod to locally born, artist of the century, Bob Dylan. It was named the greatest rock song ever by Rolling Stone Magazine. Bob Dylan released it as an anti-format song. Finally, this is a fresh version released in 2003 not likely to make it on any other station. If you have not heard it, check it out. Posted by: Scott at January 10, 2005 11:40 AMAnother obvious-if-you've-heard-it song is "On The Air" by Peter Gabriel. I'd still go with "Left of the Dial" or "Radio, Radio" for the first song, but "On The Air" should be in a possible initial mix.... Posted by: Mozo at January 10, 2005 01:41 PM"Video Killed the Radio Star" I think Video Killed the Radio Star should be an automatic disqualification due to its tie to MTV, being the first and the millionth video played. MTV is the exact opposite of this stations playlist. Posted by: Kelly at January 10, 2005 06:10 PM.... And like I said above, the song has to be LEFT OF THE DIAL. If its not that song then it should be another Mats song, just sayin. Posted by: Kelly at January 10, 2005 06:11 PMHow about Wall of Voodoo's "Mexican Radio?" Posted by: corwin at January 10, 2005 08:35 PM...or, how about something from one of the all time great artists - Lead Belly. Maybe "In the Pines" or "Rock Island Line." Posted by: corwin at January 10, 2005 09:07 PMI always hate posts that say "me too" but Left of the Dial works for so many reasons. I'm guessing the gang involved with the new station is walking a fine line with respect to Rev 105--they don't want to try to simply recreate that (stunning as it was) but also know that a good amount of the hopeful buzz is the product of our fond memories of that station. Am I right, Thorn et al? I don't want to be contrary, but I'd suggest "Rex Bob Lowenstein," by Mark Germino. I'm building a hope that 89.3's DJ's will be real people, not just "personalities," with musical opinions that they will be allowed to bring into the studio, but still a desire to serve the listening audience. It's a dying art form - one that deserves renewal, and this song is all about exactly that. Posted by: Robert Rossi at January 11, 2005 06:19 AMQueen - "Fat Bottom Girls" If the first song you play is a Peter Gabrial song, I would be very disappointed. Leave that for 'mainstream', please. Posted by: Lora Johnson at January 11, 2005 12:42 PMHow about Neil Young's "Rockin' the Free World" or Joey Ramone's version of "Wonderful World."......? Posted by: Mark H. at January 11, 2005 01:30 PMThe aforementioned "Late Greats", "Radio King", "Rock 'n' Roll Radio" would all be great. I'll add Bob Dylan's "New Morning" to the mix as well. Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2005 01:36 PMHow about if we totally give the finger to the other radio formats out there and kick off the new station with King Missle's "Detachable Penis". Posted by: williebutch at January 11, 2005 03:06 PMILL HAVE TO SECOND THE EARLIER SUGGESTION FOR THE SOVIETTES LAND OF CLEAR BLUE RADIO, BUT IF NOT THAT THEN IT SURE WOULDNT BREAK MY HEART IF THE FIRST SONG IS ROCK & ROLL BY THE VELVET UNDERGROUD Posted by: TCROCKS at January 11, 2005 04:30 PMum...left of the dial! Posted by: steve at January 11, 2005 09:28 PMF.N.T (fascinating new thing) - Semisonic Posted by: Brian at January 12, 2005 01:10 AMAdd this into the first day: Duran Duran - Too Much Information. Posted by: Christopher at January 12, 2005 01:34 AMHow about "Somewhere over the Rainbow/What A Wonderful World" by Israel 'IZ" Kamakawiwo'ole? The sentiment is appropriate, and it's not something you'll ever hear on another station. Besides it should be in the Morning Show library already. Posted by: Shari at January 12, 2005 11:32 AMEvery great game starts with one song...The National Anthem. Make it your own, maybe a live version done in a "hip" way by a local artist. Someone with ties to St. Olaf might make for an interesting transition. The whole world is not on a desperate quest for a reincarnation of REV 105. Enough of all of the 80's. Posted by: Beth at January 12, 2005 12:15 PMI agree with King Missle. That song was a regular on Rev and no other station would have the guts to play something like it. I also agree it should be something unique and forward thinking. Posted by: bob at January 12, 2005 12:19 PMOne Little Song - Gillian Welch Posted by: Bill at January 12, 2005 03:05 PMIn-studio Replacements Reunion "Left of the Dial" Posted by: Chad at January 12, 2005 05:07 PMI know this really dates me -- but the last song playing as KJJO-104 faded into the mists of time (to become a short-lived country station) was "It’s The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)." It would be cool to have good radio fading back in again with the same song -- linking the old to the new. Posted by: Michael at January 13, 2005 12:11 AMgarrison keillor backed by free range pickin' singing the bluegrass/traditional song, "turn the radio on" Posted by: paul at January 13, 2005 04:10 PMBeautiful Day by U2.... Left of the dial the replacements Posted by: Paul at January 14, 2005 09:07 AMHaving been a member of MPR and WCAL for many years, I was crushed when the excellent classical programming of WCAL left the air. MPR's classical stuff is OK, but hopefully the addition of some of the WCAL staff will improve the offering; plus I don't want to listen to opera on Sunday nights! I am, however, "getting over it". 1st song? Honky Tonk Healin' by David Ball "I did some honky tonk healin' to get me over you; Took some neon nurses around the clock to pull me through; I was in critical condition, my heart was broken in two, but due to honky tonk healin' I'm feelin' good as new................" What I read of KCMP programming sounds encouraging. I hope it works because KUMD shouldn't be alone in offering a great mix. Posted by: Mike Robial at January 14, 2005 12:31 PMI don't care what the first song is, as long as they never play Alanis, Matchbox 20, or Maroon 5! As Mary would say, "I'd rather drink hotdog water" Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of chosing the appropriate first song. This from someone who spent two weeks trying to decide what should be the first CD ever played in my first car that ever had a player. (I eventually decided on Grandpa Boy) I think it should something by Alex Chilton or the Greatful Dead. JUST KIDDING, MARY! Dave - Prior Lake Posted by: Dave at January 14, 2005 01:41 PM"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" Considering the format change, there is only one song that is the perfect fit. Roll Over Beethoven, by Chuck Berry Posted by: Rick at January 16, 2005 01:28 AMThe last song on Modern Rock KJ104 was "Dear God" by XTC, not REM. Posted by: tom tucker at January 16, 2005 11:16 AMI can think of three songs; they have nothing to do with "local" scene, mind you. The first choice is to the fact that, if I recall the anectdotes from my parents et al correctly, it was the first song of such length to have been played in its entirety with such length; the second one, for its intention of being a "small opera" redux, therefore nicely blending the "old" and the (back then) "new"; the third, the 17+ minute version has a famous tune to Lutheran church-goers: 1) "Hey Jude" (The Beatles) If that's too racy, or simply too long, then: I really feel it should be Radio Radio - what a statement that would make! lyrics available at: http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/CB18131105112094482568AF001653F3 Posted by: Kate at January 16, 2005 11:52 PMI really think that the first song should be by a local legend. The first song should be "Blowin' In The Wind" by Bob Dylan. Otherwise it should be a song by Mason Jennings, but it definitely should be a Minnesota Group. Posted by: Justin at January 17, 2005 12:51 PMI also think that sometime during the first day you should play "Bomb The World" by Spearhead and Michael Franti. Posted by: Justin at January 17, 2005 12:58 PMBob Dylan-The times they are a changin' "Come writers and critics "What A Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong (the full version, not the edited one) should be added to the first five songs played, if not the first. I've changed my thinking after hearing more about the Iraq War and the tsunami effort. A sweet, subtle, short song about peace in times of trouble. Lyrics from sing365.com: http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/What-a-Wonderful-World-lyrics-Louis-Armstrong/D44476580961F717482569700017AF3C "Some of you young folks been saying to me (beginning is omitted on other stations, either for time or subject matter). What A Wonderful World on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003N4G/qid=1106022870/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/102-8799292-0333762 Posted by: Christopher at January 17, 2005 10:41 PM1. "Uptown" by Prince in that order, the first three songs on 89.3 Posted by: Jerome at January 18, 2005 12:29 PMHank wrote:The first music played should clearly be the theme music from "Star Trek". Unfortunately, this time Capt. Kirk was not on the scene to foil the Klingon Empire in its evil mission to destroy WCAL. You could follow up this song with William Schatner's song "Real" off his current CD "Has Been". It's a song about how he is really just a person and not the "hero" portrayed in acting roles. Just a mere mortal like the rest of us!! 1. Do Ya - The Move Left of the dial, left of the dial, left of the dial. Posted by: tjk at January 19, 2005 01:20 PMMy vote is for Mason to start it off with "Nothing" or "Living in the Moment". I also agree with a previous comment about The Streets "Let's Push Things Forward". Great song - Great beginning Posted by: Erin at January 19, 2005 04:55 PM"Radio Ga Ga" by Queen. A triumphant ode to the power of music and the solace that oozes from our speakers and into our lives. If any of you have seen the recently released Live Aid know what I'm talkin' about... Posted by: Scott y B. at January 20, 2005 03:02 PMF**K You - D.O.A. Posted by: rahpower at January 21, 2005 02:37 PMTurn up the Radio by Autograph. "Spring" by Richard Shindell seems like an great way to start the whole thing off on Monday Morning. It's laced with Metaphores that seem appropriate while not being cliche, like "Left of the Dial". It speaks to the notion that we've been waiting for radio like this for a long time, and realize it won't be perfect on day one but has the potential one day to come very close. Mitch Posted by: Mitch Webster at January 21, 2005 11:35 PMTeenage Kicks by the Undertones. What better way to start off a radio station devoted to non-mainstream music than by paying tribute to the greatest supporter of the alternative and underground in the history of radio (John Peel in case you've been living under a boulder for the past few decades)? Posted by: Jon at January 22, 2005 04:30 PMIt should be something loud and local like D4 or the Midnight Evils...bit it will probably be something slow and mass-marketed like REM (again). We don't need a publicly owned radio station to compete with real community based radio stations that already exist. Play your crap, because you won't take a real chance and play anything more than the old REV playlist....which wasn't that groundbreaking.... Posted by: Buttphace at January 22, 2005 04:43 PMPlay "Thunder Roles" all day long. Oh, excuse me, that's already been done. OK - how 'bout since yer blowing up a classical station, play some Wagner - "Ride of the Valkyries". Or, maybe 20 minutes of sound effects. Or "Sugar Magnolia".
Of course, this whole thing make me feel like "Dancin' in the Streets"! Are you ready for a brand new beat? Posted by: Steviemo at January 23, 2005 04:13 PMSo what was the first song? I didn't get to hear. Posted by: Meghan at January 24, 2005 01:03 PMAtmosphere - they need the exposure.
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"Left Of The Dial" - don't ya think?
Posted by: Chris at January 4, 2005 04:47 PM